If he knows that I know what he knows , 3rd level thinking..

[Lawrence Ng]

Comments welcome.

Live 3/6 NL game. I have about $700, villain has about $600.

Villain is semi-loose preflop, quite tricky and aggressive post flop, and is someone I consider to be a 3rd level thinking player.

I am in EP and raise to $20 with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Villain is two to my left and re-raises to $80. All fold back to me and I call.

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, villain pots for $160. I insta-check raise all-in.

The range of hands I put my opponent on are AA, JJ, TT, 99, AQ with a very small chance of KK.

Is this push:

[amoeba]

I don't understand if you are pushing because you want a call or pushing because you want a fold.

this isn't much to work with. do you think he knows your preflop 3 bet range?

how have you been playing up until now?

I'm guessing KQ is not a hand that he puts in your range of calling a reraise out of position.

so you are pushing to get value from JJ or TT? making it look like a missed AK?

[Malachii]

Lawrence, this is god awful dude.

First of all, raising with KQs from EP is quite loose, I wouldn't make this play. Second, calling a reraise with this is real bad, I don't care if he's loose preflop, KQ out of position will make too many second best hands.

Thirdly, checkraising here on this board is pretty bad. Would you play a set this fast on a board this dry? You might have some folding equity on the play if he's weak/tight. But recognize that this is essentially a bluff, because I think he has your KQ slaughtered with anything he'd contemplate a call with.

[NaobisDad]

In my opinion to beat a 3rd level thinker, you have to play a level 4.

I remember translating different levels once. Goes something like this:

lvl 1: I have...
lvl 2: I think he has...
lvl 3: I represent...
lvl 4: I'm playing as if he has (He thinks he represents...)

So iff (if and only if) you had legitimate reason to think:
He knows I put him on a premium pair. And I'm using that information to represent a hand bigger/stronger than what I have.

Then I guess I sort of like this push. I think your fold equity is high.

[Hattifnatt]

Change the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and you made a good move, not now.

[PokerFink]

I think if you are going to get it all-in, leading the flop and then 3-betting all-in shows more strength and has more fold equity.

[djoyce003]

he's third level thinking...what level does he think you are thinking on?

I think you get called by hands that beat you here, and you fold out the ones you beat. Why don't you list AK as one of his potential hands?

If he has AA...and he thinks you think he has AA and that you'd only push if you can beat it..then you probably have fold equity here and it's probably fairly significant. I think it's almost certain that you are behind right now and the only way you are winning this hand is to get a fold, or get really lucky on the turn or river.

My problem with this hand is that it's a really dry board and there is no real reason to play a monster hand this way if you in fact have one...it really looks like a bluff to me if i'm sitting across the table....why play a set this way on this board?

[swolfe]

you're repping QQ or AA. if his PF reraising standards include JJ/AK or more, and if you think he'd lay down AA/KK to the big check-raise thinking that you wouldn't do that without QQ, then it's a good push.

the problem is that this is very read dependant and everyone who reads the post is going to give you crap for it.

[HoldEmKillah]

This is so so so bad (although I've done much worse [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

Pot is $840. Villian has to call $360. He's getting 2.3:1 after showing serious strength the whole way. Ugly.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion to beat a 3rd level thinker, you have to play a level 4.

I remember translating different levels once. Goes something like this:

lvl 1: I have...
lvl 2: I think he has...
lvl 3: I represent...
lvl 4: I'm playing as if he has (He thinks he represents...)

So iff (if and only if) you had legitimate reason to think:
He knows I put him on a premium pair. And I'm using that information to represent a hand bigger/stronger than what I have.

Then I guess I sort of like this push. I think your fold equity is high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aye, I think I have some good fold equity, along with a small chance I have the best hand. But more so it was because I felt I had good fold equity.

Lawrence