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#11
10-13-2005, 04:54 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Pushing situation to me. [/ QUOTE ] Why is this an auto-push for you given that SnGPT shows this as a marginal push for an avg calling range? What other factors are you considering that I may be missing? [/ QUOTE ] what is an average range? 
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#12
10-13-2005, 04:55 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
[ QUOTE ]
Try doing an experiment here. Change yourself to the caller in the big blind. And put the button pusher on a range you would push with. Then look at how tight you should be calling with. Then you will see how if you don't push this you have a major leak. [/ QUOTE ] this is not bad advice, but keep in mind that usually the BB will be too loose. if you push and he busts you with 33, it's little consolation that he made a stupid call.
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#13
10-13-2005, 05:04 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pushing situation to me. [/ QUOTE ] Why is this an auto-push for you given that SnGPT shows this as a marginal push for an avg calling range? What other factors are you considering that I may be missing? [/ QUOTE ] what is an average range? [/ QUOTE ] The SngPT avg range is 66+, ATs+, AJo+. They may actually be looser than this, which decreases my EV a bit.
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#14
10-13-2005, 05:07 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Pushing situation to me. [/ QUOTE ] A push UTG on the bubble with these stack sizes is usually worth less EV than is indicated on SNGPT since the chances of a call are somewhat larger than say a push from the SB. When you push A9 UTG and are called say 25%, then ~15% total you are knocked out and thus forgo anymore +EV moves. [/ QUOTE ] So I take it that you do not like this push then??
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#15
10-13-2005, 05:20 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pushing situation to me. [/ QUOTE ] Why is this an auto-push for you given that SnGPT shows this as a marginal push for an avg calling range? What other factors are you considering that I may be missing? [/ QUOTE ] what is an average range? [/ QUOTE ] The SngPT avg range is 66+, ATs+, AJo+. They may actually be looser than this, which decreases my EV a bit. [/ QUOTE ] i would be surprised to see a call by 66. i'd guess the ranges should be more like 88+, AJ+. nobody likes bubbling.
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#16
10-13-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
[ QUOTE ]
i would be surprised to see a call by 66. i'd guess the ranges should be more like 88+, AJ+. nobody likes bubbling. [/ QUOTE ] That is the conventional wisdom here, but to be honest I'm seeing lots of calls on the bubble with worse than 88+, AJ+. It seems like everybody has learned that you need to be uber aggressive on the bubble and thus people are really loosening up their calling hands. That, or there are just a bunch of donks at the $11 level [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] I dunno...I'm trying to figure this out. Would love to watch a successful player for about 50 games...(or read their last 50 hand histories)
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#17
10-13-2005, 05:36 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
[ QUOTE ]
Then you will see how if you don't push this you have a major leak. [/ QUOTE ] I approve of the above statement. Yugoslav Who has a huge QFT leak, [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].
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#18
10-13-2005, 05:56 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
Ok, the result is that I did indeed push and was busted when BB called w/ pocket T's.
This month I decided to try to tackle the Party $11 NL Holdem SnG's and I've been getting my behind kicked. One of the things I've done to try to improve is get SnGPT and plug in every all-in hand I make or call to try to get a sense for how my intuition lines up with the mathematical calculations. I was surprised when I found that SnGPT showed this was such a marginal EV push as it seemed a clear push to me, as it apparently does to several of you. Maybe I'm not using SnGPT correctly. I'll post this hand on their forum and see what is said there... Thanks for the replies (and additional replies are still appreciated)...
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#19
10-13-2005, 06:29 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
Maybe the problem here is that you are relying too *much* on SnGPT.
The obvious reason it gives you such a close answer here is that the "avg" range is so nicely tailored to aces and pairs that have you dominated. The "correct" bubble play is hugely dependent on reads, and those don't always fall nicely into SnGPT categories. You really have to develop a "feel" for these situations at the table, weighing many factors, and maybe using SnGPT afterwards to find large, obvious mistakes, or to experiment with different ranges. But there is never any, single "correct" answer. Just my thoughts...
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#20
10-13-2005, 07:03 PM
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Re: ($11)(Party) 4-handed, A9o on button, 100/200 blinds
I do not rely on SnGPT *at all* for making decisions on how to play a hand.
I only run SnGPT after the fact when I am reviewing my games. I just started playing the Party $11's, and my goal is to learn to play them correctly. Part of my process for learning to play them correctly is reviewing all my hand histories. Part of my hand history review process is plugging the relevant hands into SnG Power Tools to see how my decisions coincided or conflicted with the EV calculations SnGPT gives.
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