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  #1  
Old 10-16-2005, 09:48 PM
Jeffage Jeffage is offline
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Default 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

I have no idea if I played this remotely correctly...particularly interested in 5th, 6th, 7th but interested in other streets as well.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (4.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.50 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (6.50 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

River - (6.50 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (6.50 BB)


Results in white (please reply first)

<font color="white">*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bongo1029: shows [7s 8h 4h 5c Qh 5d 3h] (HI: a pair of Fives; LO: 8,7,5,4,3)
jeffage: shows [Qs Qd 9d Tc Ac 7h Jc] (HI: a pair of Queens)
Allingoodfun: mucks hand
jeffage collected $193.50 from pot
Bongo1029 collected $193.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $390 | Rake $3
Seat 1: Bongo1029 showed [7s 8h 4h 5c Qh 5d 3h] and won ($193.50) with HI: a pair of Fives; LO: 8,7,5,4,3
Seat 2: Sunyata folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 3: numexjim folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 4: jeffage showed [Qs Qd 9d Tc Ac 7h Jc] and won ($193.50) with HI: a pair of Queens
Seat 7: Allingoodfun mucked [4c Ts 4d 2s 8s Ad Qc]
Seat 8: Gaaasss folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
</font>
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2005, 10:14 PM
mscags mscags is offline
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

I think you played it fine, I would probably just check fifth though because you are likely drawing to half now. Sixth street I would be folding if either seat bet, because you are almost certainly drawing to half of the pot and could very easily be behind. The pot is decent size, but probably not big enough for me to want to pursue any further. NH though
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2005, 11:14 PM
Ray Zee Ray Zee is offline
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

you raised on 3rd to knock out the bringin --right?

on 4th was the time to slow down against two possible fourcard low hands.
5th it got worse.

on fifth street you can start guessing hands. one has a four flush most likely. seat seven no idea but probably a low draw as he didnt raise. or maybe the four of spades and picked up a flush draw but a good player would try to isolate in that spot.
on 6th it looks like that read is reasonably close.
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2005, 11:18 PM
Alex/Mugaaz Alex/Mugaaz is offline
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

What was seat 7 doing in this hand exactly?
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2005, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

I only play 2/4 to 3/6, so 30/60 might play a lot different. Sometimes I bet 4th here and hope that the bringin was on a 3 flush or something or the other guy paired. Other times I just check 4th. If I do bet 4th, then I check 5th. Your opponents played everything so weird I don't know what to put them on. My best guess is a 3 flush or some random pair for the bringin given he doesn't want to put a penny in even though he has a much better looking board than anyone. The other guy probably has some awful low draw and is checking to the guy he assumes has a better draw). Given that you bet 5th, I would not put another penny in this pot without improving.

In conclusion, against somewhat decent opponents I either bet or check/call 4th. I do not bet 5th when a guy looks to have a made low (on 5th I'd give him credit for a low since I'd assume he would not call 3rd with an 8 low). I play 6th/7th the same. This hand confuses me. I dislike pairs of Qs and Ks in this game, and I hate them even more when they're buried because it actually seems easier to know where you're at when your opponent thinks he knows where you're at. Then again, I'm always looking for reasons to fold Ks and Qs.

On a side note, did you happen to be in any pots with gaaaaaaaaaaasssss? I've played with him before at the lower limits and found him to be quite terrible, but seeing he plays at 30/60 makes me wonder if he was just dicking around...or he just has a lot of money.

*edit*
Just looked at results and I have to say WOW, is the game really this good?
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2005, 12:41 AM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

I would probably limp on third. The primary reason for raising with big pairs on third street is to knock people out. Since almost everyone folded, you have much less incentive to raise. The limper isn't folding, and if the bring-in is inclined to fold on third, he'll probably fold on fourth anyway. I like to keep the pot small in this spot in case it comes down badly on fourth.

And guess what--it came down badly on fourth. There's something in Ray's book that didn't really sink in until I had read it twenty-something times. He says that if you're on a high hand, and two other players with low door cards catch cards that are close in rank to their door cards on fourth street, that is the time to get away from your high hand. The bring-in may not have much of a hand, but I'd still be cautious. I would check and fold if the bring-in bet, but probably take one off and not really like it if the other other guy bet. On fifth, I would check and call. Seat 7 should have a made low, and seat 1 should be drawing pretty good, so I'm not too crazy about two Queens. Checking it down after that is definitely best in my opinion.
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2005, 04:48 AM
Bill Murphy Bill Murphy is offline
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

I fold on 3rd &amp; 4th every time. BUT, I think you have to bet 6th and hope Seat 7 raises and knocks out Seat 1. Betting out on 5th was fine for the same reason. Checking 7th seems like the only play; can't see how you can call a bet.

Seat 7 is prolly not Ted Forrest or Phil Ivey. Neither is Seat 1, who shoulda tried to knock you out on 6th &amp; 7th.

Is this a typical online 30-60 game?? Man, shame I went broke during the WSOP by buying directly in to the tournies, betting ponies, and boozing all day &amp; night. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2005, 10:52 AM
Bartholow Bartholow is offline
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

The players in this game always seem just terrible but I got my butt kicked there, guess I'm not good at stud/8. Hope you are doing better.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2005, 05:19 PM
Jeffage Jeffage is offline
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Default Re: 30-60 Stud 8 Hand

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine, I would probably just check fifth though because you are likely drawing to half now.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
on 4th was the time to slow down against two possible fourcard low hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably limp on third. The primary reason for raising with big pairs on third street is to knock people out. Since almost everyone folded, you have much less incentive to raise. The limper isn't folding, and if the bring-in is inclined to fold on third, he'll probably fold on fourth anyway. I like to keep the pot small in this spot in case it comes down badly on fourth.


[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
I fold on 3rd &amp; 4th every time. BUT, I think you have to bet 6th and hope Seat 7 raises and knocks out Seat 1. Betting out on 5th was fine for the same reason. Checking 7th seems like the only play; can't see how you can call a bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's amazing to me how many divergent opinions there are on this hand. Is this because there are tons of concievable ways to play an average, run of the mill hand like this? Or is stud8 that complicated? Is the proper strategy to simply nutpedal in this game at all times? Even against overaggressive players?

I totally understand everyone's thoughts on 5th. That bet sucked hard. I really like Andy's response about 3rd being a limp to wait and see what 4th brings...my stud high mentality kinda blinded me to that possibility. I think check-folding 4th might be the play here, but since I didn't know what to do, I went to my default and bet. Still learning stud8 and looking to learn more since this seems like a very good game on Stars lately (and may be incorporated into my live mixed games occassionally).

Does anyone else find it interesting how many different approaches people are offering to this hand? I though hi/lo was supposed to be easier. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Jeff
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