Did Arnie Really Deserve This?

[lehighguy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051226/...schwarzenegger

[HopeydaFish]

They'd be hypocrites to continue honouring a man whose beliefs run contrary to their own. Most Western Europeans feel very strongly that the death penalty is barbaric and wrong. This isn't a trivial matter for them.

[lehighguy]

He is governor of a state were the practice has popular support (im basing this on the fact that they still have it). Are all of his accomplishments in life null and void because his views reflect those of the people he governs. Or because he follows the law of this state. It seems harsh.

We get yelled at when we tell any other culture what they are doing is wrong no matter how repulsive it is, but its ok to criticize other peoples cultures if it's America your criticizing.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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He is governor of a state were the practice has popular support (im basing this on the fact that they still have it). Are all of his accomplishments in life null and void because his views reflect those of the people he governs. Or because he follows the law of this state. It seems harsh.

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I agree it is silly to blame him for the executions. California is a democracy. This whole issue is a symbolic one. They are showing that they disagree with the policy executed by him.

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We get yelled at when we tell any other culture what they are doing is wrong no matter how repulsive it is, but its ok to criticize other peoples cultures if it's America your criticizing.

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This is a false assumption. If he would become president of Iceland and do the same, the same criticism would arise. But, the US and Western Europe used to be portrayed as sharing common beliefs. We do not, the perspective on the most fundamental issues are different. When discussing politics/philosophy with i.e. Thais or Africans, Western Europeans have more in common with them than with Americans. It is like a love relationship where the love is gone, but the breakup is still painful and thus creates some frustration (as this episode).

[lehighguy]

I really don't think our fundamental views are as different as you think. I think a lot of it is either exaggerated by Europe or based on current excesses by the Bush administartion (excesses which I think if you polled people on they would come out against).

We still think democracy is the best system, torture is wrong, all men are created equal, etc. Do you really think you have more in common with the third world? That seems crazy to me. Most of the cultural and political systems there are way off compared to western europe and america. It isn't even close.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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I really don't think our fundamental views are as different as you think.

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They really are, not easy to find matters on which we agree anymore.

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I think a lot of it is either exaggerated by Europe or based on current excesses by the Bush administartion (excesses which I think if you polled people on they would come out against).


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The fact that Bush could get elected and then reelected shows how deep the disagreement on fundamental issues are. He would be unelectable in Europe due to fundamental issues.

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We still think democracy is the best system,

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Strong belief in this and i.e. freedom of speech we share.

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torture is wrong,

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Then why do you keep torturing people?

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all men are created equal, etc.


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No, here lies much of the disagreement. In US philosophy all Americans are created equal (Afganis can be held without trial etc.), in Western Europe all men are created equal.

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Do you really think you have more in common with the third world? That seems crazy to me. Most of the cultural and political systems there are way off compared to western europe and america. It isn't even close.

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Third world is a bit too wide. But in general we have more common mindset with the third world population (if you disregard the moslem world) than the US population. However, many third world governments acts against the will of its people.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

I think it was much because the last execution was of a black man. Most Austrians and Germans are very eager to show that they are not racist (could be connected to a history indicating otherwise, I guess [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

[lehighguy]

Does it really matter that he was black?

Would it have been more humane if he was white?

[Arnfinn Madsen]

No, it does not matter for me. However, it is a common belief in Western Europe that the American justice system is racistic and that black men are executed for crimes whites wouldn't, that makes it tough for Austrians to be associated with him.

[lehighguy]

You guys have a lot of strange misconceptions about the American justice system. A lot of black men go to jail, but a lot of black men also committ crimes. What are we suppose to do, not arrest them because they are black?