*Official* Boat or Better Thread - Page 4

tiltaholic · #31 12-02-2005, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
OK, here's one. I'm playing at Stars and the tables are loosey goosey, as you'll soon see.

I'm in BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

1 limp, 2 limp, 3 limp raise , 3 bet from hijack , folded to me.

Now the way utg and utg+1 and utg+2 have been playing, I was about 95% sure, if I called, they were calling. I was just as certain that if the action was capped, they were coming along too.

So I called the 2 sb and lo and behold, so did the limpers. MP2 (original raiser) caps, and hijack calls with the rest of us.

All 6 of us see a flop with 24.5 sb in it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Yummy!! But this is where I'm a little lost.

So being oop holding a monster, I check, intending to CR if it's heads up.

4 checks to the original raiser and he bets, hijack raises so I smooth call the 2 bets, hoping for some overcalls and possibly a 3 bet from MP2. I get one overcall, and MP2 makes it 3 , hijack calls, and I go ahead and cap it , all 3 of them call. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Turn anyone? How about a brick for 20.25 BB?

4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to make it:
6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, UTG+1 calls all in, MP2 calls,

river is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, MP2 calls and hates me.

I win 24bb pot with boat,
utg+1 has 77 for 2 pair,
and MP2 has AA, another 2 pair

Was my preflop call correct, knowing that this could be a huge multiway pot? I will know on the flop if I'm gonna continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think the pf call is good.

i think i'd call the 3-bet on the flop and C/R the turn since you know UTG+1 is throwing in his last bet and MP will call or raise...

Eeegah · #32 12-02-2005, 02:28 PM

I love you, passive players.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, CO calls.

River: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results in white below: 
CO has Ah 7h (flush, ace high).
Hero has 3d 3h (full house, threes full of nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB.

#33 12-02-2005, 03:12 PM

grunch...this is for the 66 in BB flopped boat

Well you thought you had ridiculous implied odds to make your hand. You got a BB discount on the flop, so you were paying 3 BB to get into a pot with 21.5 sb, thats your 7:1 right there that you need to see the flop! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] And if you think about implied odds, you were completely right about getting a lot of action--your implied odds ended up being 40.5:3 (not counting the money you put into the pot later, which you dont lose if you miss the flop.)

So the EV of this play is pretty high IMO without actually running the calculation.

Ah what the hell, why not:
You lose (7/8) * 3SB when you miss.
You win (1/8) * 21.5SB when you flop it, assuming the hand ends there. You can expect at least 6-8 more BB into the pot I would think since donks will be overplaying overpairs. Lets go with 7 more BB you can expect to win on later streets, which is still probably conservative as we have seen from the action in this hand.

EV = -(7/8)*1.5BB + (1/8)17.75BB = -1.31BB + 2.22BB
EV = +0.91BB (at least)

Looks like a good play to me.

Somebody let me know if I did that right.

Steve

shant · #34 12-02-2005, 03:40 PM

I think I played this quads hand pretty good. Villain was a TAG.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 raises, 5 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls.

River: (10.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 14.16 BB

#35 12-02-2005, 04:01 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

tiltaholic · #36 12-02-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

#37 12-02-2005, 04:38 PM

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Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think so. We hit such a big piece of the board. Just pop it like its hot and hope someone else hit.

#38 12-02-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this happened a little while ago.

loose passive 5/10 table

i limp A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG

MP1 raises. He is loose and aggressive and bad.
folded to CO and Button who both call two. The big blind calls. I call.

5 way flop for 10sb. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks. I check. MP1 bets. CO folds. Button calls. BB calls. I call?

Turn 4 ways, 7bb. J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP1 bets. button folds. BB calls. I raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're wondering what that hand looks like from the villian's point of view, here you go -

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Qd Qc (straight flush, queen high).
SB has 7c 5c (straight flush, jack high).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.50 BB.

SB was most unhappy after that hand. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
raise the flop for value.

tiltaholic · #39 12-02-2005, 04:55 PM

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Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think so. We hit such a big piece of the board. Just pop it like its hot and hope someone else hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB obviously hit and will almost definitely bet the turn if we call, but will likely check if we cap. CO seems to have no p roblem calling anything.

#40 12-02-2005, 05:33 PM

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Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think so. We hit such a big piece of the board. Just pop it like its hot and hope someone else hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB obviously hit and will almost definitely bet the turn if we call, but will likely check if we cap. CO seems to have no p roblem calling anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think its rare to find a guy who will call two big bets on the turn without a better hand than A9o. I think its better to collect on the flop when we are sure that the bets go in.