($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!

***** Hand History for Game 3207325455 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:18311019 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Thursday, December 15, 20:32:02 EDT 2005
Table Table 66809 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: kamrann ( $1325 )
Seat 3: CGKVR ( $440 )
Seat 4: Lillschalk ( $1100 )
Seat 5: danmanbaby ( $365 )
Seat 6: CardKeene ( $745 )
Seat 7: stockmaster2 ( $865 )
Seat 8: QuasiFiction ( $1660 )
Seat 9: soma71 ( $900 )
Seat 10: Bazuulbazuul ( $600 )
Trny:18311019 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bazuulbazuul [ Td Th ]
kamrann folds.
CGKVR folds.
Lillschalk folds.
danmanbaby folds.
CardKeene calls [15].
stockmaster2 calls [15].
QuasiFiction raises [65].
soma71 calls [55].
Bazuulbazuul calls [50].
CardKeene calls [50].
stockmaster2 calls [50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 2h, 8s ]
soma71 bets [150].
Bazuulbazuul is all-In.
CardKeene folds.
stockmaster2 folds.
QuasiFiction calls [535].
soma71 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qc ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]
Bazuulbazuul shows [ Td, Th ] two pairs, tens and eights.
QuasiFiction shows [ Ks, Kd ] two pairs, kings and eights.
QuasiFiction wins 1545 chips from the main pot with two pairs, kings and eights.
Bazuulbazuul finished in ninth place.
Bazuulbazuul has left the table.

I couldn't ask for a better flop that doesn't have a T in it... I wanted to push all the AK/AJs out... with 4ppl in a raised pot, should I have expected overpairs?

[tigerite]

I'd fold preflop (seriously).

[xJMPx]

Tought spot, great flop for your TT.

I probably flat call soma's flop bet because the original pre-flop raiser, Quasi, has yet to act. Then, wait and see what happens. If Quasi raises behind, you can probably still get away from this hand especially if soma calls the raise.

Always? I thought I was tight but never dreamed of folding TT in front of a raiser and a cold caller.

When do you fold TT? One raiser? Raiser+caller? Do previous limpers matter too?

[tigerite]

Yes if I had called preflop, which I wouldn't because: a) it's more than 10% of your stack (and you have to be figuring to play for set value here) and b) will be OOP on the flop with 4 people in it.. I would just flat call the flop bet as well.

[gildwulf]

I think you played it fine and don't agree about pre-flop fold. There is a LOT of dead money in that pot and TT is relatively easy to get away from.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
Always? I thought I was tight but never dreamed of folding TT in front of a raiser and a cold caller.

When do you fold TT? One raiser? Raiser+caller? Do previous limpers matter too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so much that, look at your stack and the position you will be on the flop, and the fact it's going to be 4 way more than likely at least, and the pot size will mean you are basically pot committed for your stack. So, I'd definitely just let this one go, OR push preflop, either are better than calling IMHO.

How did you lose 200 chips anyway?

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold preflop (seriously).

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say this cuz quasi's multitabling and therefore only raising QQ-AA?

With someone in front of you betting into the pre-flop raiser and said raiser still to act behind you I'd be real hesitant to get involved with TT on that flop. Your tens could be good, but you're not going to find out until it's too late to do anything about it. By pushing, you're effectively gambling that he doesn't have JJ+, since he's going away with overcards to two bettors in front of him (in all likliehood) whether you push or not. Calling when more than 1/3 of the deck would be bad on the turn is no great option, either, of course.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes if I had called preflop, which I wouldn't because: a) it's more than 10% of your stack (and you have to be figuring to play for set value here) and b) will be OOP on the flop with 4 people in it.. I would just flat call the flop bet as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling post-flop is very bad. Your committing a huge chunk of your stack and giving hands like AK solid odds to draw out. This is a push. I'm not sure how you can make an argument that calling pre-flop is no good because 50 chips is too much of your stack and then recommend flat-calling the flop.