1/2 questionable line - how do you eat yours....

[Dopey]

[ QUOTE ]


Raising for value, I would agree with.

Raising for information ----- [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]



[/ QUOTE ]

I think the raise is mostly for value. You have no read at all so I dont like putting the SB on such a range. I just think you need to put a raise in somewhere, I wouldn't mind the WA/WB line if it was heads-up but you have another player in the pot.

The info part, I think until you are given more evidence that you are behind, you have to play it like your ahead. I could be wrong though.

I agree with most of what Ed said in the link, but the scenario is slightly different. There is a difference between raising someone who has rasied a bet vs. raising what is potentially a continuation bet, I think. I liked the link though. Thanks

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Guruman]

--blind response--

I dont think I overcall on this river, because I can't think of a hand that we beat that takes SBs line. Maaaybe KJ. but that's it.

[grunch]

Hi True-

I assume the 4 that fell on the turn was a club and not a second 4 of spades? Because, if so, Prima Poker is rigged, and I wouldn't play there.

Anyway, I like a wa/wb line. I have no idea what UTG is on but raising the turn seems like a good option to charge him more for it. Problem with that is I don't really like folding to a 3-bet from the SB with one more card to go, so instead I play it the way you did and raise the river, because my pair of kings is often ahead of SB's auto 3-bet range. In fact, I really want to fold to a 3-bet on the river if he does it because we're only beating a bluff with something unimproved such as JJ or QQ. I wonder if this is bad?

[ QUOTE ]
--blind response--

I dont think I overcall on this river, because I can't think of a hand that we beat that takes SBs line. Maaaybe KJ. but that's it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless SB has AQs and he plays it like I do [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Seriously, you really want to fold this river Guru? We have TOP PAIR! Besides, if you're the SB on that flop, don't you consider betting JJ/QQ all the way through because no one is showing strength or raising? (I know I do ... but this might be a source of my current leaks.)

[damaniac]

Seems like WA/WB. Nothing we can do to force the guy out in the middle even if we wanted to.

With no read I'm not folding the river, but I do agree with the sentiment that a reasonable player is not betting very much we beat here. I mean, he's bet into two players on two streets of a K high board and gotten called after 3-betting preflop. I don't think most players bet QQ-TT or AQ here, so unless he has KQ or KJs, we're losing. But known, and the pot is biggish, so I call and lose.

[Guruman]

if you bet into two people on the river as a bluff after they've called so far, then thats the lead.

I agree that an underpair could take this line from the sb, but the guy in the middle couldn't call with a hand that we beat very often.

Guru-

OK raising the river might be spew. But calling is certainly better than folding. You agree if UTG wasn't in the hand it would be a clear call, right? Well, I'd argue UTG has us beat almost never here - he's called down the whole way, he was dumb enough to limp under the gun to start with and has shown no sign of having anything except two cards he wants to get to showdown. I put him on something glorious like K5 or maybe an A2 that picked up a flush draw on the turn and stayed for the pair on the river. Sure, UTG could have the world's worst-played AK here but I'm not worried about him. If I call against the SB I'm overcalling with UTG in the pot, the times he beats us is compensated by the nice overlay he gives us all the times he loses. (OK so it's really only one bet on the river as overlay but that's the best argument I can come up with at the moment.)

[Peter Harris]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop : K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB Bets, UTG calls, Hero calls

Turn : 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I say online poker is rigged.

<font color="white">Raise that damn flop. If 3bet you could consider calling down, but if flat called bet the turn, fold to a c/r. Keep betting till you meet more aggression. I don't like the WA/WB line here. </font>

[Alobar]

at this level, I raise the turn, they will still call down with any pair. I like raising the turn better than the river, cuz often the puss out on the river and dont bet their TT or whatever, because they "know" someone has to have the K.

[Erik779]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise that damn flop. If 3bet you could consider calling down, but if flat called bet the turn, fold to a c/r.

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