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  #1  
Old 12-26-2005, 06:36 AM
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Default Mistaken muck returned by dealer

At the MGM in the NL1/2 game Christmas Day there was like $12 in the pot, 6 limpers, no betting along the way, an ace hits the river, and someone makes a $5 bet. I have a crappy ace but for $5 I'm gonna call, everybody else folds.

The guy who put in the original $5 bet then tosses his cards face down to the dealer. I figure he made a stupid bet and knows it and is surrendering, so I'm putting a $1 chip on my cards and pushing 'em forward when the dealer pushes the cards back to the guy and says "you were called". Guy says "oh!" and flips 'em over showing a better ace than mine.

ok... It was a tiny pot. No big deal. But I quietly asked "why didn't you just push me the pot?" and the dealer said "he obviously hadn't seen you had called." I said no more.

But what's the rule? The guy tossed his cards far past the yellow betting line face down. They hadn't hit the muck. And he didn't ask for them back. Dealer just offered them. If this happens again with $500 in the pot I'm gonna care a lot more.
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2005, 07:12 AM
afish afish is offline
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

If you were in the one seat and your opponent was in the 10 seat, this makes a little sense.
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Old 12-26-2005, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

[ QUOTE ]
If you were in the one seat and your opponent was in the 10 seat, this makes a little sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. Not even close. He was in the 4 seat, me in the 7. $5 chip was out there just past the yellow line, clearly visible. Cards were on the table, clearly visible.
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:26 AM
Nick-Zack Nick-Zack is offline
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

This is just another example of a dealer doing to much. His job isn't to decide if a player saw that he was called. His job is to push the pot to the winner and you clearly won when he mucked.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:11 PM
Randy_Refeld Randy_Refeld is offline
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Location: Grand Casino - Tunica
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

[ QUOTE ]
But what's the rule?

[/ QUOTE ]

The rule is the best hand wins at showdown.

For some reason the dealer could tell this player was expecting the pot to be pushed to him so he pointed out he had been called.

If I am dealing I am mucking the cards as soon as they are thrown forward unless it is clear fromt he player's action (speech, gestures etc) that he is expecting the pot.
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

Do you really want poker hands decided because a player makes a mistake about whether another player called or not.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:30 PM
JooWish622 JooWish622 is offline
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

yes because others will not extend the rule to you.

i would like to hear the ruling on this if the player just pushed his card face down. Isn't this the same as mucking your hand when you're called?
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

[ QUOTE ]


ok... It was a tiny pot. No big deal. But I quietly asked "why didn't you just push me the pot?" and the dealer said "he obviously hadn't seen you had called." I said no more.



[/ QUOTE ]

I notice all good dealers clearly announce any and all action. It appears this dealer did not.

Is it a "rule" that dealers must announce all action or is it just a courtesy extended by the best dealers?
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Old 12-26-2005, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


ok... It was a tiny pot. No big deal. But I quietly asked "why didn't you just push me the pot?" and the dealer said "he obviously hadn't seen you had called." I said no more.



[/ QUOTE ]

I notice all good dealers clearly announce any and all action. It appears this dealer did not.

Is it a "rule" that dealers must announce all action or is it just a courtesy extended by the best dealers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I often announce a call or a check if I think it will keep the action moving, I have generally understood that a dealer is expected to only announce bets/raises.
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:42 PM
Randy_Refeld Randy_Refeld is offline
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Default Re: Mistaken muck returned by dealer

[ QUOTE ]
Although I often announce a call or a check if I think it will keep the action moving, I have generally understood that a dealer is expected to only announce bets/raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is generally correct. On the end it is appropiate to say "he called you" to the player that bet when he is called in exactly one spot both to be sure he saw the call and to let him know it is time to show the cards.

edit to add: In a high limit game the dealer should be silent unless he needs to say something. Example if the dealer announces a bet in a 300-600 more than one player will say "shut the [censored] up and deal."

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