Passive line with outs and top pair

SomethingClever · #1 12-23-2005, 01:51 PM

Meh? Button is loose and steals a lot. I wouldn't call him a LAG though as he's not ridiculously aggressive postflop.

Should I be donking the flop and taking it from there?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks? and calls?

milesdyson · #2 12-23-2005, 02:12 PM

i check raise the flop and pray my hand holds up.

if you bet he will mostly just call with draws/overs and raise with better hands (some worse ones, but not too many)

imported_leader · #3 12-23-2005, 02:30 PM

I'd bet/fold the river. I think he calls with worse hands and only raises better ones.

adsman · #4 12-23-2005, 02:32 PM

Bet the flop so button raises and forces out the sb? Or do you want to keep him along for the ride?

danzasmack · #5 12-23-2005, 02:34 PM

So you flop top pair against a button player who is loose and steals a lot, and check call?

If you don't check raise the flop, check raise the turn. You must raise here at some point, why wouldn't you have the best hand? Not check raising the flop makes the rest of this hand awkward, but as is the river is bet/fold, bet/call, check/call. If you think you will get a call from the SB then check/call. But as many said, bet/fold.

danzasmack · #6 12-23-2005, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i check raise the flop and pray my hand holds up.

if you bet he will mostly just call with draws/overs and raise with better hands (some worse ones, but not too many)

[/ QUOTE ]

I REALLY don;t see what we're worried about, top pair is a monster against someone who "steals a lot"

Redd · #7 12-23-2005, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop so button raises and forces out the sb? Or do you want to keep him along for the ride?

[/ QUOTE ]

We'd probably rather not have SB along for the ride (since he may be able to draw correctly), but if button raises we're likely behind and just paid 2 bets to draw. Even if we can't fold out SB, though, we still probably want more bets in the pot on the flop (since we likely have an equity edge), so we can check-raise for value.

milesdyson · #8 12-23-2005, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i check raise the flop and pray my hand holds up.

if you bet he will mostly just call with draws/overs and raise with better hands (some worse ones, but not too many)

[/ QUOTE ]

I REALLY don;t see what we're worried about, top pair is a monster against someone who "steals a lot"

[/ QUOTE ]
what? even someone who steals a lot will outdraw us somewhat often on this board.

danzasmack · #9 12-23-2005, 02:46 PM

miles,

didn't mean to make it sound personal. Just seems like this hand in particular would have a very standard river line had the flop and turn been played more aggro

RunDownHouse · #10 12-23-2005, 03:31 PM

You flop TP againt a loose stealer and have the chance to trap SB, but you just call? Weird.

On the river, I don't kow, its tough. I wouldn't advocate bet/call at all. Check/call has its merits, mainly eliminating the possibility of getting bluffed out of the pot, and the possibility of getting an overcall from SB if the button has a worse hand and fires a desperation bullet. Bet/fold is best, though, I think. If button isn't out of line postflop, he'll be hard-pressed to raise this with even a bare A, much less a hand worse than yours. So you bet to maximize value when ahead, since you aren't worried about being bluffed out.

I haven't really given c/f a lot of thought here, but it may need to be considered. What hands would he value bet on the river? How many of those worse kings would he have raised with preflop? The longer I type the closer I think it is between bet/fold and c/f, so I'm just going to stop here.