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  #11  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:46 PM
ggbman ggbman is offline
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Default Re: HU hand vs. Dreamclown

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if in fact you had an edge

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lol

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Since i already addressed why i am playing, why don't we skip the wise ass stuff and have some insight to the hand?
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:15 AM
tongni tongni is offline
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Default Re: HU hand vs. Dreamclown

Ok, fine.

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River was some dud like and 8 and i bet/call. We like?

I was going to lead or c/r most turns, but when the 3rd 6 came i wanted to keep hands like 45 and 57 around to potentiall bluff at some point.

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Your turn and river play are inconsistent. I expect this river to get bet like 80-90% of the time. I would check call or checkraise having gotten to the river like you did. Depends on how the game has been going.
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2005, 09:07 AM
ALL1N ALL1N is offline
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Default Re: HU hand vs. Dreamclown

Not CR'ing this turn when given the opportunity is criminal IMO.
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2005, 09:13 AM
ALL1N ALL1N is offline
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Default Re: HU hand vs. Dreamclown

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i wanted to keep hands like 45 and 57 around to potentiall bluff at some point

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BTW, letting him draw to 6 outs is almost worth the "bluff bet" that you may or may not be getting.
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:14 PM
cartman cartman is offline
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Default Re: HU hand vs. Dreamclown

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i wanted to keep hands like 45 and 57 around to potentiall bluff at some point

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BTW, letting him draw to 6 outs is almost worth the "bluff bet" that you may or may not be getting.

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Do you mean the pot is big enough that even if we knew he would bluff a 6 outer this is basically no better than betting and having him fold? Whereas in a smaller pot it is more valuable to let him bluff instead of betting and have him fold because his 6 outer is worth fewer total dollars?

Thanks,
Cartman
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  #16  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:37 PM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Default Re: HU hand vs. Dreamclown

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i wanted to keep hands like 45 and 57 around to potentiall bluff at some point

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BTW, letting him draw to 6 outs is almost worth the "bluff bet" that you may or may not be getting.

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Do you mean the pot is big enough that even if we knew he would bluff a 6 outer this is basically no better than betting and having him fold? Whereas in a smaller pot it is more valuable to let him bluff instead of betting and have him fold because his 6 outer is worth fewer total dollars?

Thanks,
Cartman

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take 2 extreme cases. in the first case, there is no money in the pot. in this scenario, we would rather let him bluff the river than take the pot down right now.

if the pot had 100 bets in it, we would obviously rather take it down than get that extra bet on the river.

its similar to deciding whether to slowplay a hand. how does the value of future bets compare with the size of the pot right now?

in this situation he is saying that the pot has grown enough that we want to take it down and that his bluff bet (which absolutely is not guaranteed) is worth less

i think the biggest consideration here is that the flop was 633. he is unlikely to make a naked bluff since he knows that gabe knows that its unlikely for him to have anything. but then again he is also unlikely to actually have anything. i think the most likely hands are biggish aces, 54, 57. biggish aces arent folding. i think if he had a pocket pair hed 4-bet it since there is so much bs preflop pot pumping that people tend to not slowplay their big hands as much (maybe this is wrong, i dont play much hu). if he has 54 or 57 he will think he has enough outs to continue i think, and certainly with 54. so he is getting roughly breakeven odds to call, but thinks he has more, so he will call. also, since he knows its a bad board to bluff on, he will be unlikely to fire that last barrel on the river. so while he is getting 1 BB of implied odds, we are generally not getting him to bluff again. so the only value in keeping him in the pot is getting himt o hit a straight and pay us off
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2005, 04:32 PM
ggbman ggbman is offline
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Default I have decided what i think is the optimal line

I was dicussing this with Enon last night. Bet-call the turn. I will induce plenty of bluff-raises and ensure that money goes in. If he calls the turn, bet/call any river. If he raises the turn, check call the river to let him keep bluffing worse hands and lose less when he has me beat.

To all of you who want to c/r th turn. I don't like this idea because you give him the perogative to put in as many bets as he wants oon a board where it's fairy easy to assess my hand stregnth. He has shown strngth so far, and i really dont want 3 bets going in on the turn when i MUST showdown the hand.
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2005, 09:59 PM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Default Re: I have decided what i think is the optimal line

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I was dicussing this with Enon last night. Bet-call the turn. I will induce plenty of bluff-raises and ensure that money goes in. If he calls the turn, bet/call any river. If he raises the turn, check call the river to let him keep bluffing worse hands and lose less when he has me beat.

To all of you who want to c/r th turn. I don't like this idea because you give him the perogative to put in as many bets as he wants oon a board where it's fairy easy to assess my hand stregnth. He has shown strngth so far, and i really dont want 3 bets going in on the turn when i MUST showdown the hand.

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as for the turn, your hand can be anything from AK to A3 to AA. it is not at all easy to assess your hand strength. also, as for inducing bluff raises, it is something that i try against very aggressive opponents, and sometimes they just fold. sometimes you get excess action, but sometimes you miss a bet you couldve gained from him betting the turn. either way, at least we agree more bets have to go in on the turn.

also, i dont see how donking the turn doesnt give him the choice of how many bets to put in while checkraising does. when it comes down to it, he has 6 outs almost regarldess of what he has, and if he wont bet the river with the worst hand, then you gain tremendously by making him fold those 6 outs that he doesnt know he has
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2005, 08:15 AM
cartman cartman is offline
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Default Re: I have decided what i think is the optimal line

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also, i dont see how donking the turn doesnt give him the choice of how many bets to put in while checkraising does. when it comes down to it, he has 6 outs almost regarldess of what he has, and if he wont bet the river with the worst hand, then you gain tremendously by making him fold those 6 outs that he doesnt know he has

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You are right that he still has some choice in how many bets go in on the turn and river. I think Gabe's point is that if he checkraises, Dreamclown can choose up to 4 total bets. With a donk he can only choose a maximum of 3 total bets. This is the same reason I usually like to have the lead on the turn with a one pair hand that I feel like I have to show down heads up but that I'm not proud enough of to want to see 4 big bets go in on the turn and river. Am I crazy?

Cartman
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2005, 10:32 AM
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Default Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

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