Why do I still do stuff like this?

Alobar · #1 12-05-2005, 04:17 PM

SB is new to the table, button seems respectable

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets

On the flop I came up with the brilliant plan I was going to c/r any turn if the SB folded, which I dont really think I like because given the board and the situation I think I get called down quite often, and if he folds, it was likely a hand I had beat. Then the turn comes and I come up with the even better idea of donking, which I think is even more likely to result in a better hand calling me down and a worse hand folding, and given the board I dont think its unreasonable that a worse hand fires one more time. But omg! if he raises I can 3 bet and he'll fold!! :/

Spicymoose · #2 12-05-2005, 04:24 PM

I dunno. I would love to know how to win here, but I think I just check/fold the turn. At least make this kind of play with more outs.

I might reraise preflop.

DeathDonkey · #3 12-05-2005, 04:30 PM

On that board your going to get called down by anything and everything if you checkraise the turn. Your way at least has a chance to get a fold, but I still think checking and folding on the flop is by far the best option. Also, checkraising the flop or turn would be better if the SB was still in, not out.

-DeathDonkey

Alobar · #4 12-05-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On that board your going to get called down by anything and everything if you checkraise the turn. Your way at least has a chance to get a fold, but I still think checking and folding on the flop is by far the best option. Also, checkraising the flop or turn would be better if the SB was still in, not out.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

you think there is zero chance I have the best hand here on the flop once the sb folds?

a c/r looks more authentic if the SB is still in the hand, but I think its a worse spot to "bluff" as now I gotta get 2 people to fold, no?

Spicymoose · #5 12-05-2005, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On that board your going to get called down by anything and everything if you checkraise the turn. Your way at least has a chance to get a fold, but I still think checking and folding on the flop is by far the best option. Also, checkraising the flop or turn would be better if the SB was still in, not out.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

you think there is zero chance I have the best hand here on the flop once the sb folds?

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't about whether or not you have zero chance. It is: "how high is my chance that I have hte best hand?". Also, what is it going to cost you to pull off your line?

DeathDonkey · #6 12-05-2005, 04:41 PM

Sure there is some chance you have the best hand but your OOP and its going to be expensive to find out and given all that sometimes you just have to concede these tiny pots instead of trying to fight every battle. They will make it expensive for you to be sure.

About the protected pot CR bluff - I do it like once a session and it works surprisingly well - they often call and then check/fold the turn, sometimes they just fold straight away (this play rules at live play too as they seem to believe you more). Plus if you can scare the button out you can sometimes check behind on the river and beat SB's drawing hand and put the button on monkeytilt for folding the ace high winner.

-DeathDonkey

Alobar · #7 12-05-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On that board your going to get called down by anything and everything if you checkraise the turn. Your way at least has a chance to get a fold, but I still think checking and folding on the flop is by far the best option. Also, checkraising the flop or turn would be better if the SB was still in, not out.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

you think there is zero chance I have the best hand here on the flop once the sb folds?

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't about whether or not you have zero chance. It is: "how high is my chance that I have hte best hand?". Also, what is it going to cost you to pull off your line?

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean in response to his check/fold the flop comment.

Subfallen · #8 12-05-2005, 05:45 PM

This one I don't like. This is a suspicious looking turn bet, and we should expect Button to be thinking, "WA/WB, me call down with KQ-high HAHA."

Instead, he raises. IMO this is not a sign of someone looking to fold; I think it's an overpair usually. And there is no way in hell your 3-bet is going to fold an overpair enough to be a good idea.

gaming_mouse · #9 12-05-2005, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sure there is some chance you have the best hand but your OOP and its going to be expensive to find out and given all that sometimes you just have to concede these tiny pots instead of trying to fight every battle. They will make it expensive for you to be sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey donkey,

against aggressive players, don't you worry that you'll get runover if you always fold here. i agree that it seems best, but then again it seem exploitable.

Surfbullet · #10 12-05-2005, 06:34 PM

i've completely cut out this type of creative spewing in the past 20k hands or so. I wonder if this type of weird crap is good enough for my shania that I should do it every so often...but you can definitely pick better boards/hands to do it though, limit yourself to multiple backdoors + overs, or gutshot+1over at minimum and these have a little more weight behind them in terms of making $.

This whole thing looks like spewing, call flop, c/f turn. If you feel you need to give more action wait until you have bd draws or some paint on the board to work with.

Surf