too passive?

[sfer]

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I'm confused. What do you mean by 'stop the action'? I wasn't worried about MP2 getting a free river, there's no way the turn wasn't going to get bet. I hated the turn card, there wasn't much I was beating after that card paired.

lf

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I mean stop the action as the post ends with the turn card and you write, "Hero..." The completed turn/river action gives us a lot of information to read their hands.

[sweetjazz]

Postflop reads from other hands might swing my decision (how likely is MP2 capping with a random flush draw, what is BBs flop 3-betting range here?).

I think I would probably find one more raise on the turn, getting 2-to-1 on my money. MP2's call looks like he is on a draw or just had two pair counterfeited (as unlikely as that is combinatorially). I think BB could have AK/AJ here often enough to put another raise in. If BB 3bets, then I think it's pretty likely he has AQ/QQ/AA and make the crying call down.

[QTip]

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I'm confused. What do you mean by 'stop the action'? I wasn't worried about MP2 getting a free river, there's no way the turn wasn't going to get bet. I hated the turn card, there wasn't much I was beating after that card paired.

lf

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I mean stop the action as the post ends with the turn card and you write, "Hero..." The completed turn/river action gives us a lot of information to read their hands.

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This certainly would have been more fun to discuss that way.

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Interesting hand. If you assume that the BB will play AK,AA,QQ the same way preflop+flop, you are a 2-1 favorite to have the best hand on the turn, I wouldnt worry too much about the MP2 guy since it looks to me that he is on a flushdraw given the way he played the flop and turn. So I think checkraising this turn is right move. If you are 3 bet I would call down.

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I wasn't worried at all about MP2, it was the BB that concerned me. How does my edge change if you add AQ to the mix, i'm on my way out but I'll try to pokerstove it later.

thanks,

lf

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If the villain would play AQ the same way then you are now a 5:4 underdog.

[QTip]

In play, these would be my thoughts:

PF...ok...please a 7....

Flop, ty God, time to c/r. Once the others just call, it's hard to say what they have, the pots big so there are a lot of possibilities. After I c/r, the BB should 3 bet his AK or AQ and sets...so a lot of combos there. He could feel I have clubs or whatever. When MP caps it, I immediately feel he has 2 clubs. He didn't want to raise with his JTs on the flop to blow away the field. Now he has a field and he thinks he can pump it for value and maybe get a free card/buy button deal.

Turn: I throw up a little in my mouth and bet for what I think is value [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] MP2 is going no where with his flush draw even if BB raises me. Should BB raise me, he should know I'm no longer pumping a flush draw, and seeming doesn't care if I have a boat because his is bigger. I'd just call his raise. If MP 3 bet, I honestly don't know what I'd do. A7 makes no sense and there's only one 7 left. He'd certainly raise AQ, QQ or AA PF. Whatever...hopefully that doesn't happen.

River: I don't think we're any worse off than we were before. I don't see BB 3 betting AJs there unless initial PFR was a complete maniac. What MP has after he calls the river is an utter mystery to me. I can't imagine what he has....I really can't. I can't blame you for thinking about folding. However, I don't think MP plays a boat that way, and BB still can have AK and there are plenty combos of that out there. I call.


Thanks for nothing God.

[lil feller]

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I'm confused. What do you mean by 'stop the action'? I wasn't worried about MP2 getting a free river, there's no way the turn wasn't going to get bet. I hated the turn card, there wasn't much I was beating after that card paired.

lf

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I mean stop the action as the post ends with the turn card and you write, "Hero..." The completed turn/river action gives us a lot of information to read their hands.

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I didn't even think to do that, and your absolutely right. oops...

lf

[golferbrent]

You need to put in at least one raise on the turn or river. How tight do you think the BB is? I would of put MP2 on a club draw originally when he capped the flop, but when he calls the end... now the confusion would set in.

All in all, I think a raise at some point is in order. After a C/R on the flop and no more action from you asserting the strength of your hand you have given no reason for the BB to stop betting his A-K. Unless you have a strong read that you are definitely behind here you need to put in at least one raise here for value.

I would be curious to hear your thought process on all streets. If you didn't raise the turn b/c you put MP2 on flush draw and drawing dead and then chickened out on the river came I could see that. But if MP2 is full here he definitely puts in a raise... so you must be ahead of MP2 and BB has not had to face any pressure to define his hand here either. What kind of range do you put the BB on ?

If he is reasonable... I see only one hand with 3 combos out to beat you... Q-Q. If he is slightly un reasonable then then you could add the A-Q hands to his range. The question is whether he could or would play A-Q like this?

Definitely a raise on the end and a call down of a 3 bet. However, I would be sick if I called on the end and had the best hand.

[QTip]

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I'm confused. What do you mean by 'stop the action'? I wasn't worried about MP2 getting a free river, there's no way the turn wasn't going to get bet. I hated the turn card, there wasn't much I was beating after that card paired.

lf

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I mean stop the action as the post ends with the turn card and you write, "Hero..." The completed turn/river action gives us a lot of information to read their hands.

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I didn't even think to do that, and your absolutely right. oops...

lf

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Whenever you feel you've gotten what you wanted out of the post, I'd like to know what they had please.

Thx.

[lil feller]

Ok, the PF 3 bet from the blind screamed "really good hand" I concluded that to be AQs+ or JJ+. I wasn't all that in love with the flop, for obvious reasons. I c/r'ed the flop to try and see what the BB would do. When he 3 bets I figure he must have AK or better. When MP2 capped, however, I had to put him on a club draw. As a 17 VPIP and only 1.5 AF, I had to think his most likely holding was A-small of clubs, making AK that much more unlikely to be in the hands of the PF 3bettor.

I had every intention of leading the turn, until...

The damn Ace paired. Now I'm still way behind to QQ, AA, AQs and beating only AK. After MP2 just calls the turn, I was reasonable certain he had a club draw, and still was inclined to believe it was the nut club draw, making AA impossible.

Had I been thinking clearly I would have realized that AK was much more likely then AQ at this point in the hand of the BB, and I would have c/r the turn and called down if 3 bet. I whiffed.

On the river I was going to c/r, but poof, another face card. Now i'm only beating AK, which ok, whatever, but MP2's call confused me and I really didn't feel comfortable putting 3 bets in on the river.

At any rate

BB showed AKo
MP2 showed A2 of clubs
MHWG and I didn't get as much out of it as I should have,

thanks for the respones.

lf

[ErrantNight]

that you weren't in love with this flop scares me.

you should have been in love with this flop, for obvious reasons. you should have been doing [censored] cartwheels. from a wheelchair.

if you're gonna flop sets and then get scared by the most likely cards to have connected with your unsuspecting opponents you're going to continue to not extract nearly enough with your sets.