Flopped top and bottom pair on co-ordinated board, deepish stacks

woodguy · #1 11-20-2005, 11:23 PM

Hello All,

Early in a $100 tourney.

I'm in the BB w/ 100BB's w/ 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

3 limpers, the SB completes, I check.

Flop (5BB's) comes 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, I think about leading, then figure I'd rather watch the action in front of me and make a decision when it gets back to me, as if I lead and get called life will suck OOP as many cards scare me on the turn and not many that help.

Limper bets 5 BBs, MP (100BB's) calls all fold to me, and I raise to 20BB's. 1st limper folds, MP calls.

Turn (50BB's) comes 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero????

Comments on my flop play are welcomed as are thoughts on different lines.

Regards,
Woodguy

schwza · #2 11-21-2005, 12:37 AM

i'd check/fold. the villain has a 7 or a heart here very often. if he has the unlikely 99 / A6, he might check it down.

as for the rest of the hand, i would lead. you're going to hate life if it gets checked around, and i think you want to start getting money in as quickly as possible. if you bet and get called, then you have some decisions to make. also, a flush draw will almost certainly have overs and will often raise, letting you get it all-in on the flop as a ~65% favorite.

MLG · #3 11-21-2005, 01:14 AM

I check, call a bet on the turn I think, and then check fold the river, but check folding is ok too.

#4 11-21-2005, 01:19 AM

I check. If he bets, I fold, and if he checks I bet/fold most rivers.

MLG · #5 11-21-2005, 01:22 AM

Also, I lead/3bet like 100% of the time in this spot and fully expect to stack 99.

woodguy · #6 11-21-2005, 01:45 AM

Thoughts so far are to check the turn.

I thought it was a good card to bluff/semi-bluff on so I chucked another 25BB's at the pot hoping the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] scared him.

Wrong bet size?

He flat calls.

River is J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Obviously I give up here and check.

He checks behind and show 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and takes it down.

This got me thinking a different line in whole hand may have won it for me, but I haven't been able to come up with one.

I usually lead on this flop, but with most players being pretty deep I thought of seeing 1 or 2 flat calls and the turn bricking/scaring me, and check/folding best hand would suck if the flat calls were draws I was still ahead of on the turn.

I like leading here if I can get raised, as I'm usually ahead if raised here (unless a made straight plays fast), but in retrospect with my weak backdoor flush draw my re-draws are weak, so I'm not sure about leading, but MLG is right about stacking the overpairs, and I loooove 3 betting.

I've been thinking about this hand for a couple days now and still don't know which line I like, given my knowledge of MP's hand.

I guess the c/r scared off the flush draw (if that's what the first limper had). Not to be too results oriented, but does any like a bigger turn bet?

Regards,
Woodguy

MLG · #7 11-21-2005, 01:52 AM

and you thought the 8 of hearts was a bad card.

woodguy · #8 11-21-2005, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and you thought the 8 of hearts was a bad card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I did bluff on it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My standard line when betting the flush draw is leading after I hit it, but I'm not sure this guy is laying down.

Regards,
Woodguy

Jason Strasser · #9 11-21-2005, 10:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
SB checks, I think about leading, then figure I'd rather watch the action in front of me and make a decision when it gets back to me, as if I lead and get called life will suck OOP as many cards scare me on the turn and not many that help.

[/ QUOTE ]

vs

[ QUOTE ]
Limper bets 5 BBs, MP (100BB's) calls all fold to me, and I raise to 20BB's.

[/ QUOTE ]

with 100bb stacks.

This is a contradiction, now instead of leading and getting calls, you cr and got called, and are looking at a much more unwieldy spot with a lot in the pot and people committed to it.

I like to check-call these types of flops deep and then play the turn. It's deceptive and IMO you are not going to want to be backing up your entire stack on the flop a majority of the time. Best case scenario some donk is overplaying an overpair, but most of the time if u make a huge pot on the flop u lose.

There's also something therapeutic about check calling a flop like this, seeing the worst possible turn card, and then check folding.

-Jason

woodguy · #10 11-21-2005, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like to check-call these types of flops deep and then play the turn. It's deceptive and IMO you are not going to want to be backing up your entire stack on the flop a majority of the time. Best case scenario some donk is overplaying an overpair, but most of the time if u make a huge pot on the flop u lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, agreed.

I have started to play more cash games to get used to deeper stacks, but I still suck w/ more than 30BB"s [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I lead out to avoid bloating the pot, then bloat it myself [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I was hoping the c/r would take it down, but couldn't help myself to take a shot with the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] showing up.

I spew w/ lots of BB's.

Regards,
Woodguy