stop n gos....ineffective?

[johnnybeef]

I don't use stop n gos too often, but the last several times i have done one I have noticed that I am getting called with hands like Ace and King high. I'm curious if everyone else here is finding out that perhaps stop n gos are such a widely known move that they are no longer effective.

[kyro]

Not really adding much here except to back up your claim and that I have noticed this much more often as well. They're onto us.

[Hendricks433]

I get insta called almost everytime with all sorts of hands. Im about done using it unless I have like a PP and want to try and get someone off a copuple missed high cards

[Exitonly]

thats why you (we) have to startt leading out into preflop raisers.. probe bets/Stop and gos look obvious now, so have to lead into them for value.

[Freudian]

I think most of the time it is easy to put you on a hand that is unrelated to the flop, ie a random hand that most likely missed the flop. So with the pot odds a call is right.

I know I sniff out stop'n go's a lot simply because the other guy with that kind of stack in that stage of the tournament would check to me if he hit the flop. Why would a solid player just call preflop and push postflop? The M.O of a solid player is to push or fold. When he diverges from that pattern it means something. Here it means the good old stop'n go

That said, I find them to work pretty well when you have a decent amount of chips simply because people don't want to risk 1000 chips when they also miss the flop. Afterall I could attempt the stop'n go with a pair of fives and be ahead of him.

[kyro]

This is fairly vague, IMO. When do you think we should be doing this? In the same situation when we'd normally use a SnG or just in general?

[johnnybeef]

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thats why you (we) have to startt leading out into preflop raisers.. probe bets/Stop and gos look obvious now, so have to lead into them for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, as a matter of fact, the ones that i made were value bets and have gotten called with garbage.

[johnnybeef]

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I get insta called almost everytime with all sorts of hands. Im about done using it unless I have like a PP and want to try and get someone off a copuple missed high cards

[/ QUOTE ]

i think if you read raymers post in which he coins the phrase "stop n go" this is essentially what he says.

[Bluff Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
Three main things for the stop-and-go (at the least the all-in version). First, your hand is too good to fold preflop for the conditions. Second, if you reraise preflop it won't be enough to make them fold. Third, if you bet the flop it will be enough to make them fold if they miss.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

The point of the stop n go is that it just has to work greater than 0% of the time to be +EV. If nobody ever folds, then it's even money with just pushing preflop ("you have no FE preflop").

In other words, always stop n go when Raymer's conditions are satisfied because it is always at least as good as the other options.

I tried to make a thread about this but got flamed: If you have AA and 301 chips on the BB and someone raises to 300, your proper play is a stop and go. The whole point of the stop and go is to get your opponent to make an obviously incorrect fold some % of the time (even if it's (10^-42)%).