Phil Jackson

mason55 · #1 10-29-2005, 04:25 AM

I don't really like basketball (I'm a hockey/CFB fan) but I just saw a stat that Phil has won the NBA championship 9 out of 14 years (When Jordan was gone plus a few when the Lakers sucked).

Is he one of the greatest coaches ever? This seems like a ridiculous record. Has any other coach won the NBA title 66% of his seasons?

Benholio · #2 10-29-2005, 04:33 AM

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mason55 · #3 10-29-2005, 04:37 AM

Right. So. Is he a good coach? Lots of teams have 2 superstars. Hell the Heat had Shaq and Wade this year and didn't come close. Like I said, I don't follow basketball. Is Phil that good? Or has he just gotten lucky. It seems like he's past the short term and must be pretty good.

Benholio · #4 10-29-2005, 04:44 AM

Well, he may or may not be a great coach, I'm just saying that an average coach would have won a bunch of trophies with those teams. The finals MVPs for his championships were Jordan (6 times) and Shaq (3 times).

Also, I don't think 'lots' of teams have had 2 superstars the calibre of jordan/pippen and shaq/kobe. Jordan and Shaq are frequently argued as the #1 and #2 best players of all time.

mason55 · #5 10-29-2005, 05:24 AM

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Also, I don't think 'lots' of teams have had 2 superstars the calibre of jordan/pippen and shaq/kobe. Jordan and Shaq are frequently argued as the #1 and #2 best players of all time.

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I don't know whether Phil is a good coach, but he had Jordan forever and when Jordan was gone they sucked.

However, how many championships did Shaq win before Phil? Zero.

So I don't think you can say "oh he had Shaq and Jordan." We have no evidence about what would have happened to Jordan in his prime (his time with Washington doesn't count) and Shaq in his prime DIDN'T win a championship without Phil.

Benholio · #6 10-29-2005, 06:51 AM

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I don't know whether Phil is a good coach, but he had Jordan forever and when Jordan was gone they sucked.

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This is a pretty good indicator that Jordan was more important than Jackson, but I don't think you are really disputing that.

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However, how many championships did Shaq win before Phil? Zero.

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You could think of it that way, or you could think of it as how many championships did Shaq win before Kobe came into his own?

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So I don't think you can say "oh he had Shaq and Jordan." We have no evidence about what would have happened to Jordan in his prime (his time with Washington doesn't count) and Shaq in his prime DIDN'T win a championship without Phil.

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Maybe he's a great coach, I'm just saying that having the talent he had is the main cause of those 9 championships. I think just about any coach wins 7+ titles with those teams.

Popinjay · #7 10-29-2005, 07:04 AM

The question is, did the players make him look good or did he make the players look good?

sublime · #8 10-29-2005, 09:14 AM

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The question is, did the players make him look good or did he make the players look good?

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#9 10-29-2005, 10:11 AM

this yr will be a good test for phil. all the other situations he has stepped into have been perfect. not to say he has not done a good job but he got kobie right when he was ready to get to the next level and jordan in his prime. i dont think you can compare him to l brown but he is a good coach.

holeplug · #10 10-29-2005, 11:08 AM

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I don't know whether Phil is a good coach, but he had Jordan forever and when Jordan was gone they sucked.

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No they didn't. Jordan was gone in 1994 for the entire season and most people thought the Bulls would reach around 40-45 wins without him but they won 55 games, a lot higher than was predicted. The next year Jordan was gone for 3/4 of the year and they won 47 games, good for 5th in the conference.