$33 Poll: 8 Left; 15/30 Blinds

[zipppy]

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I think the 60 bet on the flop is a sign of 1 of 2 things...either he has you beat and is building the pot, in which case you should expect to see a pot sized bet on the turn. or, he is bluffing you and expect to see a pot sized bet on the turn. are you going to call or raise a pot sized bet on the turn? what will you do if he raises significantly on the turn? if you will fold, i would just fold this now?

Personally, i probably would have limped in with this hand like you did, but i would quickly fold to this raise.

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I would only call/raise if I had a strong read on the opponent.

With no read, I raise here. This way I see where he stands before the turn. Mostly I raise because I believe my opponent is bluffing. No one (as in, 97% of people won't) bets that flop with an 8.

And I disagree with one thought: If he's bluffing, and I call, not every opponent will c-bet the turn. Calling will slow a lot of people down. I'm not saying it's good to do because it might slow them down, I'm just saying it's not an automatic that your opponent is going to raise the turn.

The reason I dont bluff here is because it just isnt worth it. You may indeed be right and have the best hand here, but there are still 2 cards to come and you are making a move on a tiny pot, with big potential to turn ugly.

I think at the 33s, where i play, it isnt important to take advantage of EVERY situation where you believe you are ahead. Let me explain myself...There are many hands where you are sitting on a big hand and will get paid off. I would put all my chips in on level 1 hand 1 in this situation. But, right now any ace has you beat and the players at the 33s often get married to aces. I just think that you can find a better place, later in the sng, to try this type of move. it just isnt worth the risk this early.

[stupidsucker]

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fold preflop.

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not an option [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

seriously though, maybe you're holding AJ, or AQ, or something else that you'd be in a pot against someone else in this spot.

Think of it in general terms: Two overs, 882 flop. Villian bets, your move?

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honestly

if you dont know how to play this post flop then the answer is an emphatic fold preflop. The very fact that this poll is up is proof to me that you need to fold this preflop.

There are lots of ways to play it +EV, but the rest of your game has to follow suit as well.

The best thing for you to do IF you dont know how to play this post flop is to fold preflop with no question in my mind at all.

If you are looking to get better at post flop play then it is my opinion that you need to look at your gameplan as a whole, not in individual hands.

Is your goal to play tight then push bot?
Is your goal to take every edge you think you have and work on $/hr rather then roi?
Is your goal to reach a certain chip count by X level then switch gears?

In the cited example you have a pair on a rag board HU now with the BB betting into you. I think it is a dangerous place to get fancy. Cold calling then popping the turn if he checks isnt a terrible plan if you know your opponent. You have no draw and have shown no strength preflop. Even if you catch the K and the Q you may still be behind.

Also.... If you are going to play KQs I like a raise preflop better then a limp, but then again,,,,, it all comes down to how you will play the rest of the tourny.

Hope this helped.

My biggest problem with this hand is that ace high has you beat. you whiffed on the flop, why not just lick your wounds, suck up the blind you lost, and find a better spot to maneuver. i just feel like its too early. I believe these types of moves dont pay off nearly well enough to justify it this early. I do like this move later in a sng when blinds are larger...most definitely, but not this early. just my preference.

[zipppy]

"playing postflop" should consist of more than just betting/calling/raising with made hands. I don't just play my own cards. I think of what my opponents have, and what they think I have.

I believe not raising is playing post flop incorrectly.

[zipppy]

People do get married to their aces; I think this could be a concern.

However, if a player is likely to bet the flop with high card ace, there's a good chance they would've raised preflop with it, no? Maybe not.

"But, right now any ace has you beat and the players at the 33s often get married to aces. "

Ain't that the truth....and any sooted ace is worth going all-in.

Nothing surprises me on the 33s...actually, the only thing that surprises me is how i consistantly over-estimate the skill of my opponent. my gut tells me to fold this hand...and i would instafold if i were playing this hand instead of you...but again, preference. my argument against raising is there is no need to make a move like this this early in the sng. to me, the level of the sng is like position in the hand...the earlier the level or position, the stronger my hand needs to be.

[zipppy]

I guess this gets to the heart of the matter, too. I was curious how many 2+2ers play their own cards in this spot, and how many factor in what their opponents have.

This hand is more about what the villian has than what you do.

The raise could be wrong, but I think it'd be good for people to think of this hand in terms of what villian has too, and not just what you're holding.

[zipppy]

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Nothing surprises me on the 33s...actually, the only thing that surprises me is how i consistantly over-estimate the skill of my opponent. my gut tells me to fold this hand...and i would instafold if i were playing this hand instead of you...but again, preference. my argument against raising is there is no need to make a move like this this early in the sng. to me, the level of the sng is like position in the hand...the earlier the level or position, the stronger my hand needs to be.

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I agree with you.

what if, however, you amended that last statement to say: "the earlier the level or position, the stronger my hand needs to be, or the weaker my opponents needs to be".

I think this would be +ev. I'm not saying pull off bluffs all the time, but this hand is a strong spot to pick up a pot, in my opinion.