JJ, Super Tuesday, just into the money

[grandgnu]

So you'll lose to the limper and double up in the side pot against the raiser, sounds like a win-win situation to me? w00t! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Just because the UTG player has made the money, does not mean this player is skilled and playing optimally. He probably hasn't played a hand because he's been trying to make the money.

He could be limping with a monster, or he could be limping with a speculative hand (high suited connectors, small pocket pair, etc)

Regardless, I still like a push here, it gives you more opportunities to win the pot (by your opponents folding or by your hand holding up in a showdown)

Calling is the worst option, and I can understand why some might be scared of the early action and fold, fearing that they are AT BEST coin-flipping in this situation. Without further information on the limper, it's tough to say. I put the raiser on A/K or A/Q or maybe even A/J suited. But without more info on these two players, the other stacks at the table, etc. it's hard to say.

[MLG]

I push, but im not thrilled about it.

[dcarlc]

Is this a good place for a squeeze play Harington talked about? After UTG limps, UTG+1 makes it 2000 togo and you make it 3500, UTG is going away unless he is slowplaying AA or KK, With his odds and at least a very good hand UTG+1 is at least calling and maybe pushing. If you push, UTG is still going away without AA or KK(wouldn't think he's limping with QQ or AK-AQ), if he feels like coming in with anything less let him come. UTG+1 raises 4x BB here with his big stack of chips, does not want anybody in this hand but you pushed anyways. He calls you with AA-QQ and AK prob AQ. His raise could be isolation on the limper who he may know better than you. At this point I'm pushing or folding, I lean toward's pushing.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a good place for a squeeze play Harington talked about? After UTG limps, UTG+1 makes it 2000 togo and you make it 3500, UTG is going away unless he is slowplaying AA or KK, With his odds and at least a very good hand UTG+1 is at least calling and maybe pushing. If you push, UTG is still going away without AA or KK(wouldn't think he's limping with QQ or AK-AQ), if he feels like coming in with anything less let him come. UTG+1 raises 4x BB here with his big stack of chips, does not want anybody in this hand but you pushed anyways. He calls you with AA-QQ and AK prob AQ. His raise could be isolation on the limper who he may know better than you. At this point I'm pushing or folding, I lean toward's pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re-raising like that commits half of your remaining chips into the pot, making it extremely difficult for you to fold if you're played back at. I'd rather push and give myself the best chance to push out an A/Q or lower, and possibly an A/K might fold if he feels that he's at best coin-flipping and possibly dominated.

[dcarlc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this a good place for a squeeze play Harington talked about? After UTG limps, UTG+1 makes it 2000 togo and you make it 3500, UTG is going away unless he is slowplaying AA or KK, With his odds and at least a very good hand UTG+1 is at least calling and maybe pushing. If you push, UTG is still going away without AA or KK(wouldn't think he's limping with QQ or AK-AQ), if he feels like coming in with anything less let him come. UTG+1 raises 4x BB here with his big stack of chips, does not want anybody in this hand but you pushed anyways. He calls you with AA-QQ and AK prob AQ. His raise could be isolation on the limper who he may know better than you. At this point I'm pushing or folding, I lean toward's pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re-raising like that commits half of your remaining chips into the pot, making it extremely difficult for you to fold if you're played back at. I'd rather push and give myself the best chance to push out an A/Q or lower, and possibly an A/K might fold if he feels that he's at best coin-flipping and possibly dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

The short story out of my rambling was to push or fold, I like push. Ya I would not reraise to 3500.

I have to push at this point, and yea, I'm not too thrilled about it either, however I can't pass up on this spot to double/triple up with what is very likely to be the best hand.

[woodguy]

I burned almost my entire time bank and folded.

UTG folded and UTG+1 won uncontested.

I'm not a big fan of folding thin edges in order to find the mythical "better spot", but I really didn't think I had an edge here.

UTG's open limp was disconcerting, being so short and limping UTG, but my bigger concern was UTG+1.

He had only played one hand since I sat down, and it was KK on the bubble. He had a few opportunitites to steal and didn't take them.

Now he's raising in EP over a suspcious limp.

At best (best for me that is) I put him on AA-TT, AK,AQ, and I'm a slight dog to that range with only 500 overlay in the pot, which might not be an overlay. I think given his tightness that range is fairly broad. You could put in 99, but I think adding AQ evens it out some.

Add to him the UTG limp and I didn't figure to be in great shape, so seeing no edge I folded.

I have no problem with those who say push, and I push this over someone I have seen splash around even once in a heartbeat, UTG be dammed.

I had a very good August, and I attribute some of that to have some patience and not putting my $$$ in a bad spot due to stack size pressure (i.e. calling)

I have started September poorly, bubbling and going out a few time by calling in spots where I really didn't have to, and want to reverse that trend.

Is this one of those places I should take the slight worst of it?

FWIW I lost 1/3 of my stack a few hands later coming over top of a shorty all in with AQ, he had 77 and hit a set.

I lost the rest with TT after hitting a set on the flop, only to lose to KK, who hit his set on the turn.

After the tourney I was thinking about my hands, and if I win the JJ hand, I can withstand the TT v. KK beat....hmmmmm

Regards,
Woodguy

[EverettKings]

I agree with your fold for pretty much the exact reasons you outlined. If UTG+1 really hadn't used all of those chips to steal or limp or anything in all the 30 hands you've seen, he's way too tight for me to love this spot. If he at least made a few position raises or called a raise now and then, I shove my chips in here with only a slight twitch. But here I just want to throw up when I shove into two people who could easily have the exact hands I'm fearing. Blech.

On a side note, does the bubble situation make you more or less inclined to mess with close spots here? If you doubled up or won this pot you'd have over 10k and could steal a lot of important blinds. But then again you can steal decently with your current stack and don't have to risk going home empty. Hmm

Everett

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

On a side note, does the bubble situation make you more or less inclined to mess with close spots here? If you doubled up or won this pot you'd have over 10k and could steal a lot of important blinds. But then again you can steal decently with your current stack and don't have to risk going home empty. Hmm



[/ QUOTE ]

The bubble had burst.

130ish left, 140 pay.

Regards,
Woodguy

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your fold for pretty much the exact reasons you outlined. If UTG+1 really hadn't used all of those chips to steal or limp or anything in all the 30 hands you've seen, he's way too tight for me to love this spot. If he at least made a few position raises or called a raise now and then, I shove my chips in here with only a slight twitch. But here I just want to throw up when I shove into two people who could easily have the exact hands I'm fearing. Blech.

On a side note, does the bubble situation make you more or less inclined to mess with close spots here? If you doubled up or won this pot you'd have over 10k and could steal a lot of important blinds. But then again you can steal decently with your current stack and don't have to risk going home empty. Hmm

Everett

[/ QUOTE ]

He's no longer on the bubble, the bubble burst at 140 and they're down to 130. Payouts at this stage are usually mediocre and you need to really hit the final table to see worthwhile payouts.

As such, you should be playing to accumulate chips, not allow yourself to be whittled away to the point where you can't push people out of a pot.

I don't fault folding here maybe 20-25% of the time, but I think it's a push the other 75-80%.