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#1
08-30-2005, 12:31 PM
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call down or fold against an unknown
Pokerroom 10-20 10 players
This was part of my shot taking last night. Only real decision I had to make in 100 hands. I have J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 horrible limpers limp. Post flop, they are slightly aggressive, but nothing laggish at all. MP1 limps, MP2 limps, Hip raises, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls Flop (4 players) 8.5sb J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 checks, I bet, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Turn (3 players) 5.5BB 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hip bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hip... 8.5BB in the pot now. Agaisnt an unknown, do you call this down with a T kicker? I felt I absolutely had to bet the turn to make the flush draws/overcards to pay. Once he c/r me, assuming a reasonable opponent, he either has a bigger J, or a 6, or 22, or a flush draw. If you had AJ, instead of JT, would that change your answer? 
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#2
08-30-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: call down or fold against an unknown
[ QUOTE ]
Pokerroom 10-20 10 players This was part of my shot taking last night. Only real decision I had to make in 100 hands. I have J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 horrible limpers limp. Post flop, they are slightly aggressive, but nothing laggish at all. MP1 limps, MP2 limps, Hip raises, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls Flop (4 players) 8.5sb J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 checks, I bet, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Turn (3 players) 5.5BB 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hip bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hip... 8.5BB in the pot now. Agaisnt an unknown, do you call this down with a T kicker? I felt I absolutely had to bet the turn to make the flush draws/overcards to pay. Once he c/r me, assuming a reasonable opponent, he either has a bigger J, or a 6, or 22, or a flush draw. If you had AJ, instead of JT, would that change your answer? [/ QUOTE ] Youre getting 4.25-1 odds if you call this down, I think vs the typical opponent you will be more than a 4.25-1 underdog in this situation. So I would fold here, with no reads. He is less likely to be semi-bluffing here since there an extra player behind him, but this is always a possibility but still significantly less than if you were heads up. With AJ I would call down since i can beat some of the hands he may be raising with, although I would still consider myself an underdog for the situaion, I dont think im a 4.25-1 underdog here, although if he has a hand like AJ,KJ or QJ he certainly played it strangely. The hands I would expect him to show on the river are 22,6x, AJ, or top pair with a flush draw, like QcJc, or KcJc or Jc9s and Jc8c.
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#3
08-30-2005, 04:18 PM
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Re: call down or fold against an unknown
against an unknown i call down.
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#4
08-30-2005, 05:05 PM
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Re: call down or fold against an unknown
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Pokerroom 10-20 10 players This was part of my shot taking last night. Only real decision I had to make in 100 hands. I have J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 horrible limpers limp. Post flop, they are slightly aggressive, but nothing laggish at all. MP1 limps, MP2 limps, Hip raises, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls Flop (4 players) 8.5sb J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 checks, I bet, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Turn (3 players) 5.5BB 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hip bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hip... 8.5BB in the pot now. Agaisnt an unknown, do you call this down with a T kicker? I felt I absolutely had to bet the turn to make the flush draws/overcards to pay. Once he c/r me, assuming a reasonable opponent, he either has a bigger J, or a 6, or 22, or a flush draw. If you had AJ, instead of JT, would that change your answer? [/ QUOTE ] Youre getting 4.25-1 odds if you call this down, I think vs the typical opponent you will be more than a 4.25-1 underdog in this situation. So I would fold here, with no reads. He is less likely to be semi-bluffing here since there an extra player behind him, but this is always a possibility but still significantly less than if you were heads up. With AJ I would call down since i can beat some of the hands he may be raising with, although I would still consider myself an underdog for the situaion, I dont think im a 4.25-1 underdog here, although if he has a hand like AJ,KJ or QJ he certainly played it strangely. The hands I would expect him to show on the river are 22,6x, AJ, or top pair with a flush draw, like QcJc, or KcJc or Jc9s and Jc8c. [/ QUOTE ] Ha!, like I'm going to listen to you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I thought the same thing you did, so I folded, he didn't show.
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#5
08-31-2005, 01:48 AM
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Re: call down or fold against an unknown
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pokerroom 10-20 10 players This was part of my shot taking last night. Only real decision I had to make in 100 hands. I have J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 horrible limpers limp. Post flop, they are slightly aggressive, but nothing laggish at all. MP1 limps, MP2 limps, Hip raises, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls Flop (4 players) 8.5sb J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 checks, I bet, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Turn (3 players) 5.5BB 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hip bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hip... 8.5BB in the pot now. Agaisnt an unknown, do you call this down with a T kicker? I felt I absolutely had to bet the turn to make the flush draws/overcards to pay. Once he c/r me, assuming a reasonable opponent, he either has a bigger J, or a 6, or 22, or a flush draw. If you had AJ, instead of JT, would that change your answer? [/ QUOTE ] Youre getting 4.25-1 odds if you call this down, I think vs the typical opponent you will be more than a 4.25-1 underdog in this situation. So I would fold here, with no reads. He is less likely to be semi-bluffing here since there an extra player behind him, but this is always a possibility but still significantly less than if you were heads up. With AJ I would call down since i can beat some of the hands he may be raising with, although I would still consider myself an underdog for the situaion, I dont think im a 4.25-1 underdog here, although if he has a hand like AJ,KJ or QJ he certainly played it strangely. The hands I would expect him to show on the river are 22,6x, AJ, or top pair with a flush draw, like QcJc, or KcJc or Jc9s and Jc8c. [/ QUOTE ] Ha!, like I'm going to listen to you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I thought the same thing you did, so I folded, he didn't show. [/ QUOTE ] Lol, thats hilarious, I even told Eric you would say something like that!! Wait, you actually folded this hand?? I thought you would 3 bet here!! Just playing, good fold.
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#6
08-31-2005, 02:28 AM
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Re: call down or fold against an unknown
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pokerroom 10-20 10 players This was part of my shot taking last night. Only real decision I had to make in 100 hands. I have J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 horrible limpers limp. Post flop, they are slightly aggressive, but nothing laggish at all. MP1 limps, MP2 limps, Hip raises, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls Flop (4 players) 8.5sb J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 checks, I bet, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Turn (3 players) 5.5BB 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hip bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hip... 8.5BB in the pot now. Agaisnt an unknown, do you call this down with a T kicker? I felt I absolutely had to bet the turn to make the flush draws/overcards to pay. Once he c/r me, assuming a reasonable opponent, he either has a bigger J, or a 6, or 22, or a flush draw. If you had AJ, instead of JT, would that change your answer? [/ QUOTE ] Youre getting 4.25-1 odds if you call this down, I think vs the typical opponent you will be more than a 4.25-1 underdog in this situation. So I would fold here, with no reads. He is less likely to be semi-bluffing here since there an extra player behind him, but this is always a possibility but still significantly less than if you were heads up. With AJ I would call down since i can beat some of the hands he may be raising with, although I would still consider myself an underdog for the situaion, I dont think im a 4.25-1 underdog here, although if he has a hand like AJ,KJ or QJ he certainly played it strangely. The hands I would expect him to show on the river are 22,6x, AJ, or top pair with a flush draw, like QcJc, or KcJc or Jc9s and Jc8c. [/ QUOTE ] Ha!, like I'm going to listen to you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I thought the same thing you did, so I folded, he didn't show. [/ QUOTE ] Lol, thats hilarious, I even told Eric you would say something like that!! Wait, you actually folded this hand?? I thought you would 3 bet here!! Just playing, good fold. [/ QUOTE ] I was taking a shot Scared money [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] No, it was such an ugly looking board, he was either c/r with air, or I was crushed. He didn't seem to be bet/raising lightly.
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#7
08-31-2005, 09:34 AM
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Re: call down or fold against an unknown
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pokerroom 10-20 10 players This was part of my shot taking last night. Only real decision I had to make in 100 hands. I have J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 horrible limpers limp. Post flop, they are slightly aggressive, but nothing laggish at all. MP1 limps, MP2 limps, Hip raises, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls Flop (4 players) 8.5sb J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 checks, I bet, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Turn (3 players) 5.5BB 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hip bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hip... 8.5BB in the pot now. Agaisnt an unknown, do you call this down with a T kicker? I felt I absolutely had to bet the turn to make the flush draws/overcards to pay. Once he c/r me, assuming a reasonable opponent, he either has a bigger J, or a 6, or 22, or a flush draw. If you had AJ, instead of JT, would that change your answer? [/ QUOTE ] Youre getting 4.25-1 odds if you call this down, I think vs the typical opponent you will be more than a 4.25-1 underdog in this situation. So I would fold here, with no reads. He is less likely to be semi-bluffing here since there an extra player behind him, but this is always a possibility but still significantly less than if you were heads up. With AJ I would call down since i can beat some of the hands he may be raising with, although I would still consider myself an underdog for the situaion, I dont think im a 4.25-1 underdog here, although if he has a hand like AJ,KJ or QJ he certainly played it strangely. The hands I would expect him to show on the river are 22,6x, AJ, or top pair with a flush draw, like QcJc, or KcJc or Jc9s and Jc8c. [/ QUOTE ] Ha!, like I'm going to listen to you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I thought the same thing you did, so I folded, he didn't show. [/ QUOTE ] Lol, thats hilarious, I even told Eric you would say something like that!! Wait, you actually folded this hand?? I thought you would 3 bet here!! Just playing, good fold. [/ QUOTE ] I was taking a shot Scared money [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] No, it was such an ugly looking board, he was either c/r with air, or I was crushed. He didn't seem to be bet/raising lightly. [/ QUOTE ] By the way If I was the villain in the hand that checkraised the turn vs you, you should definitely fold. I have never checkraised the turn on just a flush draw before. That is just unethical.
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