I suck OOP...a 1010 hand

[SackUp]

Villain is 23/8.13/1.11

I need a good line OOP with a crap flop like this. Is it better to b/f this? I'm not sure what he is calling other than the fd, but it seems he would have raised for the free card on the flop. I feel so weak with this move, but not feeling much value in any other line??


Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (7.66 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Turn: (4.83 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.83 BB

I'll just tell you how I usually handle situations like this. Against 3 or more opponents I would just check fold the flop. Against two or less opponents you cant give up that easily IMO.

So back to your situation with TT on an AQx board against 2 opponents. First I would bet the flop. I look at this flop bet as kind of a desperation bet that could easily be my final investment in this hand depending on what happens. If both opponents call, its time to check fold the turn. If one opponent calls, and I have no read on the opponent I will usually bet the turn hoping he called me with a gutshot draw on the flop. There is also a small chance the villain may fold Qx or a hand like JJ, which also adds some value to betting the turn. If the villain calls my turn bet, I will give him credit for a better hand and I will plan on check folding the river. Although there are some hands on the river that you can still beat like any broken flush draw/miss gutshot draw, I believe you wont snap a bluff enough in this spot to make up for all the bets you lose paying off with the second best hands. So with no reads I check/fold the river.

With two opponents perhaps a check raise on the flop is a better line for this hand.

If you are beat you are getting 3 bet here then its an easy fold.

If your raise is called then you are most likely looking at a flush or straight draw and you can then bet/fold the turn if no scare card falls.

Thoughts?

[ QUOTE ]
With two opponents perhaps a check raise on the flop is a better line for this hand.

If you are beat you are getting 3 bet here then its an easy fold.

If your raise is called then you are most likely looking at a flush or straight draw and you can then bet/fold the turn if no scare card falls.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate it. By playing the hand this way you are going to lose a minimum of 2sbs every time when you dont have the best hand. If you bet the flop and fold to a raise, you can get away from this hand for only 1 sb. Or if you bet and both opponents call you can get away from this hand for only one sb when you check/fold the turn.

Also your plan implies that you will gain some kind of reliable information from this checkraise, this is usually not the case since not everybody plays the same and reacts the same to a checkraise.

[SackUp]

yeah i don't like the c/r line at all either. No reason to build a pot in which there is a strong chance we are behind if these guys are betting out. Plus I think there is some fold equity on the flop by betting out.

I like your thoughts West. Especially HU I think a b/f line on the turn may be better, though I'm hard pressed to see many hands they are cc preflop and then call the board with this flop and not a piece?

[ QUOTE ]
yeah i don't like the c/r line at all either. No reason to build a pot in which there is a strong chance we are behind if these guys are betting out. Plus I think there is some fold equity on the flop by betting out.

I like your thoughts West. Especially HU I think a b/f line on the turn may be better, though I'm hard pressed to see many hands they are cc preflop and then call the board with this flop and not a piece?

[/ QUOTE ]
Whether to bet/fold the turn or check/fold the turn is a very close decision. This is where a read on your opponent would be very helpful. For instance, if you were up against a loose opponent, than betting the turn is mandatory since KJ,KT,JT or a flush draw can all easily be there, plus loose players are more apt to peal the flop with hands like 99 or worse even on that board to see if they get lucky on the turn. But if you were up against a very tight player then check folding the turn is probably the best play since a tight player will not call you preflop with KJ,KT,or JT. With no read I always assume my opponents are more on the loose side of the spectrum than the tight side, which is why with no read I would bet/fold the turn.