What is the difference betwwen these two scenarios?

[superleeds]

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Where did I say I don't benefit? That's not the point at al

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So you want all the benefits of living in a stable, complex, industralised country but you don't want to pay for it?

[PoBoy321]

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Scenario 2 is simply what will happen if you don't pay your taxes in scenario 1.

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No, what will happen if I don't pay my taxes is that a gang of government-sponsored thugs will either extract the money under threat of violence or kidnap me.

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Right, the same way that a bunch of government-sponsored thugs will extract money from you if you don't pay child support, or kidnap you if you rob a bank?

[El Barto]

So, I guess you are deliberately trying to muddle the legitimate efforts of many to keep taxes low. We are all part of this society and we get to elect our gov'mint. We should elect those who will let us live our lives with the minimum taxes we can get by with for the legitimate needs of the society.

As part of that society you should pay your share, or go to jail (or pay big fines) if you try to avoid your share. What you "feel about" taxes doesn't really matter to me.

What matters: Keeping taxes low for all of us.

[tylerdurden]

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As part of that society you should pay your share, or go to jail (or pay big fines) if you try to avoid your share. What you "feel about" taxes doesn't really matter to me.

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I'm going to build a fence and plant some trees. Since this will beautify the area (according to *my* definition), everyone else on the street will benefit from it. Therefore, everyone else on the street better pay their share (which I will determine for them) or else they will get a boot to the head. If they don't like it, they can move.

[El Barto]

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As part of that society you should pay your share, or go to jail (or pay big fines) if you try to avoid your share. What you "feel about" taxes doesn't really matter to me.

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I'm going to build a fence and plant some trees. Since this will beautify the area (according to *my* definition), everyone else on the street will benefit from it. Therefore, everyone else on the street better pay their share (which I will determine for them) or else they will get a boot to the head. If they don't like it, they can move.

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You quoted my second paragraph. Now read my first paragraph.

There are towns that do just what you suggest. We need to vote out those stupid politicians.

[elwoodblues]

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I take the view that taxation is nothing more than theft

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No you don't. You pretend that you do to try to sound tough about taxes.

[tylerdurden]

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You quoted my second paragraph. Now read my first paragraph.

There are towns that do just what you suggest. We need to vote out those stupid politicians.

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And then what? Put in some other stupid politicians that will do the same thing? Those politicians were elected, were they not? You first claim that their election gives them legitimacy, then complain about what they do with their office?

You don't see that the problem isn't the particular "stupid politicians" that are in office at any given time, but rather with the system that allows and encourages them to do stupid stuff and steal your money and spend it on their own pet projects?

If your answer is "we just need to elect smarter politicians" what you're really just saying is "we just need to elect people that do what *I* want, anyone that does what some other guy wants is 'stupid'".

[tylerdurden]

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Right, the same way that a bunch of government-sponsored thugs will extract money from you if you don't pay child support, or kidnap you if you rob a bank?

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When you rob a bank, you are initiating force against another. When you refuse to pay taxes, you're resisting the government's initiation of force against you.

Is shooting someone in cold blood the same as shooting someone that's attacking you with an axe?

[Felix_Nietsche]

If a country does not have taxes then it will eventually die…..probably by an invasion by a neighboring totalitarian regime. This is history talking…..not me.

Taxes are more “protection money” than theft. It provides the funding to control crime and violence. Also when you travel overseas, your govt provides a certain amount of protection as well. Back in the days of the Roman Empire, a Roman citizen who found himself in trouble just had to utter the words, “I’m a Roman Citizen” and this was enough to get him/her out of trouble.

The best goal we can hope for is low taxes.

[hmkpoker]

The typical cause of taxes is mutual benefit through government intervention. The typical cause of theft is personal need. Assuming that the same amount is being taken in both scenarios, the end is the same...scenario 2 is just terribly unrealistic.