First Serious Hand

[InfernoLL]

Been at the table less than an orbit, so no reads. Seeking feedback on preflop and turn play mostly, though all comments appreciated.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: (5.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[Jeff W]

I play $1/$2 on party and your mileage may vary.

I reraise preflop because I have an edge in equity even out of position and it makes my play more straightforward. I raise the flop because I don't want to miss any bets with this monster and to charge draws while I'm at it. I'm torn between betting and check-raising the flop, but I think check-calling is the least attractive alternative.

The turn checkraise is fine if you think it's likely that the CO will bet. I have seen far too many examples of my opponents' passivity and cowardice to let this turn be checked through. The river bet was a no-brainer.

I believe you missed some bets in here both in this hand and in the long-term iteration of this hand.

[InfernoLL]

Thanks for the input. I tend to play pairs below 99 more tentatively than you suggest, and position was definitely a consideration when I just called. I felt check-calling the flop and check raising the turn would get me maximum value out of the hand, as preflop raising overcards and pairs would continue to bet given a nonthreatening turn. In retrospect I feel like betting the turn is better because they will probably call and because checking a paired board through is much more likely. Does anyone advise against check raising a harmless turn? I didnt feel the need to knock anyone out or charge draws extra, as the flop seemed unthreatening. I also feel betting the turn makes it easier for them to fold the river, while checking will get me either 2 bets immediately or encourage a single bet later. Maybe I'm way off.

[Jeff W]

Happy to help. I should clarify that my suggestion to checkraise the flop is for value more than to knock out draws and also to tie people into the pot.
I like betting the turn because I think you gave the other players too much credit for good hands that would bet the turn. Overcards will quite often bet/call the flop and check the turn behind.

[Nemesis]

Personally i don't like the way this was played. I probably check-raise the flop and cap if reraised. On the turn bet out after the check raise and then bet the river as well.

[InfernoLL]

Can you really assume the other players in this hand are going to be that aggressive? Overcards will call the flop raise and then fold the turn if they don't improve. Low pairs will likely do the same. If they were that aggressive the turn would have been bet, and I would have had an easy checkraise for an extra big bet. The preflop raiser turned out to have AA, which means he would have likely given action to the river, but in most cases he won't have an overpair, and in most cases where he does, he'll bet the turn regardless of what falls. It was just strange that he decided to check through because the board paired, obviously a weak tight player.

[kiddo]

This is excatly what often happens if you decide to sloooooowplay. Checkcalling flop is almost never good with only a few players and out of position.

I would normally bet out flop. They will never put you on a big hand and that will win you a lot if they got a hand (like AA) and they will call you down with overcards. If they are a bit loose but not aggressive enough to raise my flopbet without a ok hand I would think about checkraising flop.

Only time you can play like this is when the preflopraiser is loose-aggressive and will not fold a small pair even if you checkraise turn. Normally, checking twice with best hand is a sure way of not winning as much as you should.

Also, against good players this style is suicide, without you knowing excatly why they will check turn when you got a hand and bet when you dont.

[Benjamin]

Preflop, without a read on the CO, I'd 3-bet most times here: I don't want to give the BB good odds to call with overcards that will kill my eights way too often.

After you 3-bet than that changes the way the rest of the hand goes, of course.

I'm with the others on post-flop play: go ahead and put some bets out there unless you have specific reads that these opponents are unlikely to pay you off.

B.