A few second pair hands

[Schizo]

Hand 1

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero....

Hand 2

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, MP (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero's plan?

[imported_leader]

Both are call and fold UI.

[Schizo]

Why is the second one call and fold turn UI? We need 8.6:1 to draw to a second pair and we aren't getting it.

[imported_leader]

Post deleted by leader

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is the second one call and fold turn UI? We need 8.6:1 to draw to a second pair and we aren't getting it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we have enough implied odds

Edit: we have a BDFD too and were getting 7-1. I think it's an easy call.

[milesdyson]

he's assuming he has exactly 5 outs on the flop in the second hand, where he is getting 7:1. he is wondering why he should call getting 7:1 when he needs 8.6:1 to draw to 5 outs (it's actually 8.4:1).

edit: you edited. lol. yeah we have some implied odds and we have a backdoor flush draw.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
he's assuming he has exactly 5 outs on the flop in the second hand, where he is getting 7:1. he is wondering why he should call getting 7:1 when he needs 8.6:1 to draw to 5 outs (it's actually 8.4:1).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm illiterate [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]