a 150 hand i forgot about

[James282]

This hand takes place against Paul, who is an aggressive player but one who is young and unafraid to lay down when he thinks he is beat. Since I have been at the table, he hasn't lost a showdown(even when putting in action on previous streets). He has been stealing very aggressively and isn't afraid to make a move at the turn.

Paul open raises the button and I call with Ks9h in the BB.

The flop is 8sTs3d. I check-raise, he calls.

The turn is a Jh. I bet, he raises, I three-bet, he pauses and grimaces and calls.

The river is a 4, I bet.
-James

[mvernon851]

What was your thought process?

I'm assuming you decided you both picked up draws on the turn and were betting him off a missed draw. Isn't it just as likely that he had a J and was calling you down?

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
What was your thought process?

I'm assuming you decided you both picked up draws on the turn and were betting him off a missed draw. Isn't it just as likely that he had a J and was calling you down?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's just as likely, but it is certainly possible. I do think it's equally probable that he has a ten or a Jack - and I am saying "neither of these scares me." This opponent, for example, would be extremely unlikely to showdown an unimproved AT.
-James

[worm33]

this is such spewing to me. Obviously his range of stealing hands is large here so u cant assume 10-8-rag missed him, and u have k9 high...check fold

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
this is such spewing to me. Obviously his range of stealing hands is large here so u cant assume 10-8-rag missed him, and u have k9 high...check fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi worm, this is not a standard line. This is a once in a while line against someone who has been stealing very aggressively but who doesn't showdown as lightly as most.
-James

[mike l.]

"This is a once in a while line"

then why not 3 bet preflop and get things started off right?

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
"This is a once in a while line"

then why not 3 bet preflop and get things started off right?

[/ QUOTE ]

An intriguing option that I probably don't pursue with hands like this quite enough.
-James

[mike l.]

i think the thing is to recognize he's been messing with your blinds too much. then think about what his weakneses are. not just can he lay hands down, but what sort of hands does he overvalue, what sort of plays does he like to make and hate to have made against him, any tells, etc?

then wait for just the right hand and decide right then that you are going to do everything you can to win a certain pot. 3 bet preflop and then forget about what you have in the hole and use the flop to determine what youre going to represent. pick two hands. for instance if it comes JsTh6h you can try to act like both AK and a backdoor heart draw with KJ. do whatever you can to represent that hand in his mind.

ok ive blathered enough. it probably wont work ever if he's got top pair. really good players sometimes start a bluff and then give up just in time to save a bet or three.

[La Brujita]

I am with you until the turn where I bet and call the raise.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
I am with you until the turn where I bet and call the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about that, but it gives me no chance to win unimproved and makes my future flop raises in blind defense scenarios lose a lot of steam. Since I will have 11 outs most of the time I am behind and he will showdown, there is a big possibility that he will fold many better hands unimproved on the river, and there is acutally a chance he'll fold right there on the turn, I went ahead and three-bet. There is also a decent chance he is raising a naked ace here, a nine himself, or a flush draw.
-James