Do you find this paragraph in CardPlayer annoying?

[Ulysses]

CardPlayer article on Paul Phillips

In the pre-tournament interview, Paul was asked to name his favorite hand. He answered “two sevens,” since that hand won him a key pot at The Bicycle Casino against legendary poker great T.J. Cloutier. In an amazing feat of irony, Paul ended up winning this tournament with precisely that hand.

I presume that was written by someone who fancies himself a writer.

[Vehn]

Its not ironic at all.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not ironic at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it is a near perfect usage of the word irony.

Irony: incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result

Who would have thought before the tournament started that Paul's favorite hand would later win the tournament about to begin?

I agree the hyperbole calling this an amazing feat of irony could have been expressed much better.

[Ulysses]

Actually it is a near perfect usage of the word irony.

Nope. You're making the same mistake many people do. Just because something is unusual or unexpected does not make it ironic. Or, as Alanis Morrissette should have been told, just because something sucks does not make it ironic.

irony != coincidence

It would have been quite ironic had Paul busted out of the tourney w/ two sevens after that interview. But his winning with that hand is merely a coincidence, albeit a quite unlikely one.

Here's a Usage Note (from dictionary.com) to explain the distincton in more detail:

Usage Note: The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply “coincidental” or “improbable,” in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly. Thus 78 percent of the Usage Panel rejects the use of ironically in the sentence In 1969 Susie moved from Ithaca to California where she met her husband-to-be, who, ironically, also came from upstate New York. Some Panelists noted that this particular usage might be acceptable if Susie had in fact moved to California in order to find a husband, in which case the story could be taken as exemplifying the folly of supposing that we can know what fate has in store for us. By contrast, 73 percent accepted the sentence Ironically, even as the government was fulminating against American policy, American jeans and videocassettes were the hottest items in the stalls of the market, where the incongruity can be seen as an example of human inconsistency.

[Wake up CALL]

Thanks for the explanation Ulysses. However I was looking at the matter from the perspective that (when dealt them) Paul fully expected to win the tourney with his pocket sevens again and did. Does this not make it ironic or am I still all confused?

[Rushmore]

It is coincidental, but not ironic. In fact, the scenario is virtually the opposite of irony.

Had he said, "Well, I won the last tournament with two sevens, but let's face it--a hand is a hand is a hand...," and THEN won with two sevens, well, THAT would have been ironic.

So, to recap: People confuse coincidence with irony. The opening sequence of Magnolia (Thorn, Berry, and Hill), for instance, is coincidence, not irony. The scene where Bill Macy's character falls and smashes all of his teeth out of his head in an effort to steal money for cosmetic dental surgery which he does not need...well, that's irony.

[Softrock]

U - I agree with you but was actually more interested in the concept of performing a feat of irony. Can that be done?
What about something that is indeed ironic would make it a feat that could be performed?

The fact that someone would think that he/she could perform a feat of irony strikes me as...well, ironic!

(And on that note I'm going to bed because this has gotten much too heavy).

[ramjam]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
U - I agree with you but was actually more interested in the concept of performing a feat of irony. Can that be done?
What about something that is indeed ironic would make it a feat that could be performed?

The fact that someone would think that he/she could perform a feat of irony strikes me as...well, ironic!


[/ QUOTE ]

Err, I think I agree. One can perform a feat (which I take to mean an action other than an expression of thought) that is ironic but one cannot have intended it to be ironic since then it would not have been ironic - hence, the phrase is itself laced with irony. However, whether this latter irony is of the type that derives from the writer's unawareness of their inherent contradiction or the type that comes from their knowing use of it is unclear.

[J_V]

You beat me to the Alanis Morrisette jab. Damn you Ulysses.

[all_aces]

I once heard a comic ripping her song "Isn't it Ironic" to shreds. It was hilarious. A highlight:

"The line, 'it's like a traffic jam, when you're already late'... that not ironic. That's just poor planning and bad luck. Now, it would be ironic if you were a city planner, on your way to a meeting with other city planners to discuss the traffic problem in your city. That would be ironic."

I'm not fully convinced that it would indeed be ironic if this were the case, though. Any thoughts? There's a fine line between irony and coincedence. It was still funny tho.

Regards,
all_aces