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  #1  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:04 AM
Jonny1723 Jonny1723 is offline
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Default Top 2 Pair

Hello - I'd appreciate your opinions on all streets please.

I hadn’t long been at the table, so had no real reads other than the flops were generally 3-4 handed.
The hands that had been showed down so far had been decent hands IMO.

Bet365 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG Calls, 5 Folds, Hero Raises, SB Calls, BB Calls, UTG Calls.

<font color="green"> As I had no reads yet I didn’t know what UTG may limp with. I though a raise with position would be the best option. Correct or not ?</font>

Flop: (16 SB) T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB Checks, BB Checks, UTG Bet, Hero Raised, 2 Folds, UTG Raised, Hero Raised, UTG Called.

<font color="green"> I was concerned about the re-raise here, but as UTG didn’t raise PF I thought AK/AQ/AJ were out of the question.
Also, at these limits you see a lot of players overvaluing top pair, so I thought I’d find out a bit more about where I was at.

Was this too strong ? Should I have backed off ? Should I have waited until the turn to cap ?</font>

Turn: (12 BB) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG Checked, Hero Bet, UTG Raised, Hero Called.

<font color="green"> Despite me capping the flop, he still C/R me here. I knew the 5 didn’t help, so thought he must have a real hand now.

As mentioned, with no PF raise I though AK/AQ/AJ were out, AT/TT a possibility, although at these limits I suppose anything was possible.

What hand would you put the villian on ?</font>

River: (16 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG Bets, Hero Calls.

<font color="green"> I saw no point in raising the river having been C/R on the turn, but definitely wasn’t folding top 2 pair on this board. </font>

Final Pot: 18 BB

Results = I will post later.

Thanks.

J.
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:33 AM
Sykes Sykes is offline
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

Preflop, Textbook play.

Flop is fine.

Turn, I would bet also thinking UTG could have QT/KT/QJ/JT/KJ, but when he c/r I would also call thinking UTG could have J9,AJ,TT,KK,QQ.

River is good.

Seems like a standard hand.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

2 top pair is a weak hand as he might have 3 of a kind or a straight(/draw), both beat your hand. I would call his raise on the flop and probably check/fold 3/4 of the time on the 4th street after his raise.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:39 AM
McNeese72 McNeese72 is offline
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

[ QUOTE ]
I was concerned about the re-raise here, but as UTG didn’t raise PF I thought AK/AQ/AJ were out of the question.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why not AJ? A lot of people limp with AJ UTG in full ring games.

Personally, I've gotten to where I hate flopping two pair when the cards are high cards and the board is coordinated. Seems like someone always draws out on me. I'll play them but I'm getting to where I'm very cautious.
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:51 AM
TexInAtl TexInAtl is offline
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

[ QUOTE ]
2 top pair is a weak hand as he might have 3 of a kind or a straight(/draw), both beat your hand. I would call his raise on the flop and probably check/fold 3/4 of the time on the 4th street after his raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that I'm not a regular on the Micro-Limit forum, and I've been off the forums for awhile. Is it just me, or is this some of the worst advice ever posted? How could you possibly fold top 2 pair 3/4 of the time with no reads when you could be playing against a complete donkey that would make the same play with K2o?
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

Well of course that depends on the player. If I know that he is an idiot or that he is bluffing alot then I will play most of my hands.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:08 AM
TexInAtl TexInAtl is offline
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

Dude, first of all, top 2 pair is NOT a weak hand. It is a very STRONG hand. Second of all, if you have NO READS, then you have no way to determine if villian limped with AJ, J9, KK, QQ, or TT, which are the only hands that beat you on that flop. Are you still going to say that with NO READS you're going to assume that villian has one of these 5 hands 3/4 of the time and fold? Let me know where you play, I want to play on your table.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:26 AM
Jonny1723 Jonny1723 is offline
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

Thanks for all the responses.

As it happens the villain had TT for the flopped set, so it appears I'm not alone in thinking I couldn't have really done much different.

It's always good to hear other people's differing views on the same situation.

Cheers.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:42 AM
TexInAtl TexInAtl is offline
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

Say, "NH". Note that player limped with TT. Move on to the next hand.

I would have played it the same.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:03 PM
Songwind Songwind is offline
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Default Re: Top 2 Pair

*grunch*
Great raise PF.

With top two, I play the flop the same.

When UTG c/r after I cap the flop, I have to slow down and just call.

[ QUOTE ]
As mentioned, with no PF raise I though AK/AQ/AJ were out, AT/TT a possibility, although at these limits I suppose anything was possible.

[/ QUOTE ]
With no reads at microlimits it's possible he limpted in with AA. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Even if he's a good player, AJo is not an unusual limp UTG, which would, incidentally, have flopped broadway.

I am fearing AJ, but hoping for KT or QT. He might also have TT and not have the knowledge/intestinal fortitude to raise PF.
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