Best starting hand chart for shorthanded games?

[gasoltub]

I found MEbenhoes chart in this thread.
Is that the most current and "best" chart? Also, is it available in Excel format perhaps?

[sublime]

charts suck, read more posts

[gasoltub]

[ QUOTE ]
charts suck, read more posts

[/ QUOTE ]

no. charts don't suck.
yes. I will read more posts.

Charts are a quick start to good preflop standards. (If you use a good chart of course)
So, step one is to use a chart and start playing lower limits.
Step two is to learn why the chart looks like it does while at the same time getting game experience.

That's my $0.02

Now back to my question, if anyone has an answer, please.

[sublime]

sorry, i should have said:

if you already know about hand values and how they change facing a raise/position etc. then charts suck. i assumed you did.

edit: what i mean by reading posts isn't the standard slapstick response that most use. i would search for some preflop threads, or just read a ton in here to get a feel for *why* some posters are raising/calling with certain hands. imo, preflop charts are OK when initially learning the game ( i am talking basically raw beginner to poker) but after that they will just hinder your growth and limit your profit potential.

[x vikram]

Personally, i dont enjoy following charts in detail because for example, in the chart above, it says to never fold AKs and AKo anytime preflop. In my opinon, if you followed that chart and it was a short handed game and it became 3 bets, Raise, Re Raise, Re Raise by 3 different people, reads become more important because in some games i have seen/played someone should/would have KK or AA and therefore your chance of winning go down signifigantly and your call/raise would be unprofitable

[goodguy_1]

Here is an amended chart: Starting Hand Chart v2.0 (In Progress Update)

Changes I've made-
Just on Openers:
-are to raise 66 and sometimes 55 utg.
-steal less with small pairs(22,33) in the cu or button-depending on how the blinds play.
-raise A7s,possibly A6s utg not fold.
-raise less with A2o-A3o particulalry in the cu(sometimes button) depending on maleabiltiy of the blinds.
-steal-raise with a wider range of hands in the cu:Q8s,Q9,J8s,J9,T9s,T8s,T9,98s and 87s not fold obviously depending on both blinds' tendencies.
-open for a raise w/ a possible wider range of hands from MP ie Axs,KT,QJ,Q9s,J9s-depending on the game.

I think this chart is a better starting place for $5-10 than his earlier chart. I rarely look at a chart during play now.

hopefully I'm going in the right direction I'm tryin to loosen up and go from 23/16 - to~ 27/18 slowly. I really feel that eventually playing ~30/20 is the way to go as you play higher.

Here's another old thread with some of the same info but a good link to PokerRoom's ev-stats page: 6-handed starting hand charts

you may want to mess around with PokerStove and look at at the equity of possible 2,3 or 4 handed pre-flop scenarios..just to get a feel for things.
PokerStove Poker Software and Analysis

[Mig]

What do you do if the 2 blinds are loose enough to both call almost 100% and are tricky enough to bet on the flop with nothing as a steal attempt ? Do you still play the hands above ? What if they are very agressive 3 betting you with any pocket/any 2 cards > 9 etc... Are you still trying to raise on the button/CO with the stuff above ?

I played like 2k hands shorthanded 5/10 and this might work there since you have more fold equity. But in 1/2 6 max you will never (almost) have the BB/SB fold... I think raising from the button with trash will get you in trouble in 1/2 just b/c you will have to showdown 90% of the time...

[gasoltub]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry, i should have said:

if you already know about hand values and how they change facing a raise/position etc. then charts suck. i assumed you did.

edit: what i mean by reading posts isn't the standard slapstick response that most use. i would search for some preflop threads, or just read a ton in here to get a feel for *why* some posters are raising/calling with certain hands. imo, preflop charts are OK when initially learning the game ( i am talking basically raw beginner to poker) but after that they will just hinder your growth and limit your profit potential.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a completely raw beginner. (I've been cooking for 4 months [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )
I know about the things that give starting hands their value (or at least I think I do).

But when moving to shorthanded play from full ring I assume there will be differences in hand value, not just from the differences in number of players but perhaps even more because of the higher agression. Am I correct?

[gasoltub]

Thanks,
is that chart available as an excel file somewhere?

[bottomset]

I agree with Sublime, they are good for when you first start out to give you a foundation .. after that they are worthless