AKo -- how ridiculous is this?

Nick C · #1 11-22-2005, 11:09 PM

I can sort of see a case for my initial call on the river, but I also realize I got very lucky. Anyway, what do you think?

Feel free to comment on the flop and turn as well. I wasn't really sure what to do during this hand.

I was new at the table and have hardly any hands at all with UTG+2 and MP2.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (8 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (11 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

QTip · #2 11-22-2005, 11:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can sort of see a case for my initial call on the river, but I also realize I got very lucky. Anyway, what do you think?

Feel free to comment on the flop and turn as well. I wasn't really sure what to do during this hand.

I was new at the table and have hardly any hands at all with UTG+2 and MP2.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (8 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (11 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

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Dude....I really, really like the thought process here anyway.

ZenMusician · #3 11-22-2005, 11:43 PM

Is UTG+2 on KQ-K9s ?

Otherwise I am not understanding the river action.

-ZEN

krimson · #4 11-22-2005, 11:41 PM

Can you explain the initial call on the river? The 3-bet makes perfect sense with some hand reading on UTG+2 (we're almost never behind, and often ahead of KQ/KJ here).

Maybe i'm just overthinking. Is the call simply becuse we're unsure where we stand against MP2, but getting an overcall from UTG+2 seems probable so we take value that way?

QTip · #5 11-22-2005, 11:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is the call simply becuse we're unsure where we stand against MP2, but getting an overcall from UTG+2 seems probable so we take value that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be disappointed Nice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I was thinking you had a nice read on UTG+2 and figured he would go for a c/r and could try feeding MP one at a time for 3 or so. Tell me it's true <3.

krimson · #6 11-22-2005, 11:48 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
Is the call simply becuse we're unsure where we stand against MP2, but getting an overcall from UTG+2 seems probable so we take value that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be disappointed Nice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I was thinking you had a nice read on UTG+2 and figured he would go for a c/r

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From his post:
I was new at the table and have hardly any hands at all with UTG+2 and MP2.

QTip · #7 11-23-2005, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the call simply becuse we're unsure where we stand against MP2, but getting an overcall from UTG+2 seems probable so we take value that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be disappointed Nice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I was thinking you had a nice read on UTG+2 and figured he would go for a c/r

[/ QUOTE ]
From his post:
I was new at the table and have hardly any hands at all with UTG+2 and MP2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I should go to bet and come back when my brain is working [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Evan · #8 11-23-2005, 03:41 AM

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The 3-bet makes perfect sense with some hand reading on UTG+2 (we're almost never behind, and often ahead of KQ/KJ here).

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Please stop drinking alcoholic hot sauce.

krimson · #9 11-23-2005, 12:44 PM

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The 3-bet makes perfect sense with some hand reading on UTG+2 (we're almost never behind, and often ahead of KQ/KJ here).

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Please stop drinking alcoholic hot sauce.

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#1. I'm not crimson.
#2. Put UTG+2 on a range here, what hands are we behind? He raised pre-flop, but didn't cap. Didn't bet the flop or turn with nothing but small rags on the board. Didn't value raise the turn when he had the field trapped in.

Nick C · #10 11-23-2005, 05:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain the initial call on the river? The 3-bet makes perfect sense with some hand reading on UTG+2 (we're almost never behind, and often ahead of KQ/KJ here).

Maybe i'm just overthinking. Is the call simply becuse we're unsure where we stand against MP2, but getting an overcall from UTG+2 seems probable so we take value that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Going into the river, I felt like my cards might as well be face up. I mean, I guess I could be on some bizarre slowplay or I could have two big cards other than exactly AK, but I thought my hand seemed pretty obvious.

All the same, I wouldn't have been shocked if UTG+2 woke up on the king. But he didn't. Then, after that, I sort of half-expected MP2 to go into check-call mode. But he went ahead and bet.

At the time I was kind of playing on instinct and decided to go for an overcall. It's entirely possible this is bad, but here's a retrospective rationale for it:

(1) It's possible MP2 is folding to a raise. Some players who were committed to showdown would check on the scare card.

(2) If UTG+2 has a worse king, he may curse MP2 for leading into me and fold if I raise (and then UTG+2 will thank MP2 if the hand goes to showdown).

(3) It's really not out of the question for MP2 to have a better hand. People like to cold-call with pocket pairs. He could have intended to slowplay or checkraise on the flop with his set. Or he could have turned a set with 88. (Nevertheless, during the hand, I was figuring my hand was probably best on the river.)

(4) What actually happened could take place. If UTG+2 has a worse king, he may gain confidence and checkraise after I meekly call. I didn't anticipate this happening, but apparently it is a potential consequence of the line I took.

So there's all of that. But Meep makes a good point about how if UTG+2 has KQ he may call two bets cold on the river and with AQ/AJ he's unlikely to call no matter what. I suspect I should have just raised the river at the first opportunity.

Once I just called and UTG+2 checkraised and MP2 folded, though, I thought the 3-bet seemed easy enough. But maybe I'm wrong about that. (I'm not sure how to interpret Evan's post in this thread.)

In any event, it turned out that UTG+2 had K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. So I didn't have to chop with him like I was worried I might. (His checkraise made me think there was a good chance we both had the same hand.)