Spider senses are tingling

[pokerjoker]

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If u don't get it all in here then fold 66 pf.

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duhhhhhh this is terrible reasoning

villain gave us a lot more info post-flop then pre-flop to consider folding 66 on this flop

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so u guys would fold this here?...I see all kinds of stuff besides KK+JJ in this situation.

[Gregg777]

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so u guys would fold this here?...I see all kinds of stuff besides KK+JJ in this situation.

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Exactly, you see all kinds of stuff other than KK/JJ at this level.

Assume villain minraised another 35, SB is pot committed for his last 20, so there is 163 in the pot with 150 left. You are getting a little better than 2-1 with a push.

It would be hard to fold getting 2-1 at this limit with the villain's description of: "not the best of players".

You will occasionally see a set here, but not often enough to justify the fold. If this was a higher limit against a passive nit who never gets out of line, then fold, but not here.

[Ghazban]

I never said I'd fold, but I might. It (obviously) comes down to a read; in the moment, I might get a strong feeling about what I should do. I usually go with those feelings. If I don't get one, I stick it in and river quads if necessary.

Oh I definatly had a VERY strong feeling. But like Yvesaint, my penis said push. I called out villain's hole cards in chat before pushing, and he flipped them up to my amusement. UTG+1 = KK, SB = JJ for Set over Set over Set action. I really couldnt imagine uTG+1 playing AA or AK like this. I felt he would raise SB's weak lead with either of those.

Villain's line shows just about as much strength possible, and its usually not 1-pair here EVER from my experience, unless villain is a complete donkey, and like I said, this villain had not been getting out of line much. If only I were good enough to go with my read. I'll never be like Barry [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[yvesaint]

yea, ive only had 2 hands against me to base this from, but from what ive seen in pots i havent been involved in, a cold-call of any sort of bet followed by a min-raise on the same street is almost always a set.

[trevor]

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If u don't get it all in here then fold 66 pf.

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Worst oft-given advice ever.

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[kurto]

I just can't agree with this. Even on-line, you should be able to read certain players.

Recent hand where I kicked myself for not listening to myself (as opposed to the people who say never fold a set):

I'm on the button with pocket 8s. A min raise in EP, a ROCK in midposition pushes it up to 8bb. Since we're both full stacked I call. The minraiser calls. Flop comes 8 J Q. Minraiser makes a wussy lead... ROCK checks (which I remember thinking didn't seem what I would expect considering his raise)... I put in a real raise, the minraiser calls it, and the ROCK now checkraises. I told myself, "I knew it... if he had an overpair he wouldn't play it this way." I KNEW he had a higher set and I knew he expected me to call.

Then you hear that oft repeated 2+2 voice.... "never fold a set"... and I grudgingly went against my every instinct AND what I thought was very obvious info being given out.... So I push, minraiser folds and the ROCK insta-calls. Of course he had the top set.

My point... with a rock; considering the raise pf, and the checkraise on the flop (after a bet and a raise)... this was ONLY a set.

For absolute beginners... I would say the 'never fold a set' advice (unless you have a set of 10s on a board of 10JQsuited...) is fine. But for those trying to develop their game, its bad.

The fact of the matter is a lot of people play sets in very predictable recognizeable manners. And a lot of people are very predictable. After playing for awhile, if you can't put certain players definitely on sets once in awhile, then you're not developing proper hand reading skills.

[Gregg777]

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After playing for awhile, if you can't put certain players definitely on sets once in awhile, then you're not developing proper hand reading skills.

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Agreed, but with hero getting better than 2-1, do you really think at 200NL that it will be set over set at least 2 out of every 3 times?

If it was even money or villain was a nit, it would be an easy fold, the odds are the only reason I would call once hero finds himself in that spot.

Hmm, another hand I just witnessed on Bodog, QJ7 board, QQ vs JJ vs 77, I think this is happening slightly more often than odds would dictate [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Big_Jim]

OMG ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED.

I lose my ass on this hand too, I suck at folding sets.