LA Game busted! - Page 4

audiopostman · #31 05-10-2005, 01:58 PM

The city fine will actually between $10 and $1000 with the posibility of up to 6 months in jail at the judges discretion.

Also, I have called and spoke with the community relations officer but I can not get a police report unless I was cited. When I told him my concern that I was afraid to play poker at home games anymore, he said not to worry that the LAPD is not after home games and that there had to be another reason to bust that game like drugs, etc.

FYI, CA State law allows gambling so long as no rake is taken. (337j) However, LA County Law so far as I can tell, makes it illegal as well as LA city law. So basically no home games allowed in LA County.

There is a loophole, I think. Are there any lawyers here that can help to decifer this? If the CA penal code 337j "positively permits" home games then home games would be okay in LA county according to 13.20.020. They still would be subject to the local city ordinance.

Los Angeles County Ordinance

Chapter 13.20 GAMBLING AND RELATED ACTIVITIES (17)
13.20.020 Acts regulated by state.
The ordinance codified in this chapter does not prohibit any act either positively permitted or prohibited by state law. (Ord. 9555 § 2 (part), 1968: Ord. 461 Art. 1 § 3, 1917.)

13.20.030 Gambling activities prohibited.
A person shall not deal, play, carry on, or conduct:
A. Any game where players bet or wager money, checks, credits or other things of value against each other; or
B. Any game of chance for money, checks, credits or other things of value. (Ord. 11114 § 1, 1975: Ord. 9555 § 2 (part), 1968: Ord. 461 Art. 2 § 21, 1917.)

13.20.110 Violation -- Penalty.
Every person violating any provision of this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not exceeding $500.00 or by imprisonment in the County Jail for a period not exceeding six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment. (Ord. 9555 § 2 (part), 1968: Ord. 461 Art. 1 § 4, 1917.)

tipperdog · #32 05-10-2005, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I could really care less if you don't think it's real and am not going to waste time arguing with your lame points. If you're in the LA area, please advertise your game on the internet and we'll see if you're next.

I wanted to get a picture of the citation, but the guy that brought it is very paranoid and wouldn't let me get a photo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me be clearer: I'm don't doubt that your friend received a citation. However, the only way this could have happened is if the cops were looking for something else and stumbled into the poker game (as I wrote in my original post).

What's bull is the notion that LAPD is dispatching 10-person fully armed strike forces to execute misdemeanor warrants.

warewulf · #33 05-10-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I could really care less if you don't think it's real and am not going to waste time arguing with your lame points. If you're in the LA area, please advertise your game on the internet and we'll see if you're next.

I wanted to get a picture of the citation, but the guy that brought it is very paranoid and wouldn't let me get a photo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me be clearer: I'm don't doubt that your friend received a citation. However, the only way this could have happened is if the cops were looking for something else and stumbled into the poker game (as I wrote in my original post).

What's bull is the notion that LAPD is dispatching 10-person fully armed strike forces to execute misdemeanor warrants.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong again. Thanks for your input.

kodonnell · #34 05-10-2005, 02:44 PM

I am not a lawyer, but I thought that it was deemed in CA that poker is not a "gambling" game. That it is a game of skill. If this is true, would it really matter if the game was Hold'em or Rummy? Could the police bust a game of rummy played for money?

I host a home game near Palm Springs, CA (in Riverside County) so this has me a bit concerned as I thought the CA law presided. Do I need to check my city and county laws for compliance?

audiopostman · #35 05-10-2005, 05:58 PM

Yes you need to check both your county and city law. They overide state law in the local jurisdiction.

audiopostman · #36 05-10-2005, 06:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I host a home game near Palm Springs, CA (in Riverside County)

[/ QUOTE ]

I just checked...Riverside County has no gambling ordinance so it defaults to state law. However if you are in the city of Palm Springs, your game is illegal. Maybe you can obtain a license... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Palm Springs Municipal Code
11.12.010 Gaming prohibited except in regulated clubs.

(a) Except as otherwise provided by Section 11.12.230 herein, it shall be unlawful for any person (i) to play or bet at, (ii) to deal, carry on or conduct, whether as owner or employee, (iii) or to knowingly permit in any house, room or place owned by him or under his charge, any game played, conducted, dealt or carried on with cards, dice or other device, for money, checks, chips, credit, merchandise or other representations of value. This ordinance shall not apply to any game or mechanical device defined in Part 1, Title 9, Chapter 10 of the California Penal Code (Section 330, et seq.)

(b) Except as otherwise provided by Section 11.12.230 herein, it shall be unlawful for any person, for himself or herself, or for any other person, corporation, or other business entity to engage in or carry on, or to maintain or conduct, or cause to be engaged in, carried on, maintained or conducted, or share in the profits of, any gaming club in the city of Palm Springs without first having secured a license from the city to do so and without compliance with all of the provisions of this chapter and state law pertaining to gaming clubs. No gaming operations shall be conducted in any location within the city unless so authorized under the provisions of this chapter.

kodonnell · #37 05-10-2005, 07:10 PM

Actually I am in Cathedral City. Where can I find the code (or if you have it that would be great too)?. Also if it is a resource other readers can look up their own jurisdiction, you may want to post a link.

TrojanGabe · #38 05-10-2005, 10:44 PM

Hey Everybody,
This is Gabriel from USC, I've played poker all over Los Angeles probably with many of you. (And Yeh come to my home cash games, we play $1-2 blinds, or $0.50-$1 blinds.)

First of all, that LA bust really happened at the Tuesday game. I've talked to 2 guys who were cited, and that was one of my favorite regular, friendly home games, that i went to many times in Koreatown.

Okay, now what is the next step? LA is the poker capitol of the world, with Millions of dollars exchanging hands in home games! I'd even say there are over 1 million people who have played home game poker in LA.

So what can we do to set a precedent for this, and at least help the victimless crime-victims from that Tuesday game? That's what we should be discussing on this board. This bust/arrest/ruling effects everyone of us!

1. One person suggested going to John and Ken Show They are a talk radio, who support people's rights like this. They may run with this topic.

An even greater idea would be to organize a celebrity spokesperson to spearhead a campaign for the freedom of LA home poker. Like Woody Harrelson for Weed. I know this would be some work (and fun), but everyone would benefit.

2. I ran across this site Texans for Poker
It's and organized groups in Texas fighting for the freedom of poker.

Are there any sites, or organizations like that in LA?
Maybe Libertarians groups would fight for the cause?

3. Further down the road if the goverment gets more out of control, we can organize an initiative for the ballot, but that would be the most work wouldn't it?

Any other constructive, positive ideas? We are all smart people here.

Fight on!

Gabriel
213-280-8045 (Call me about my cash game, i take no rake)

TrojanGabe · #39 05-10-2005, 10:55 PM

Here is a great non-profit, freedom organization.

Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA)

American Jury Institute

There are focused simply on education Jury members on their freedoms! The freedom to use their brain, and common sense.

The whole site is ALL common sense, but alas, common sense isn't common. (For example, Jurors voting guilty to fine a guy for playing friendly poker.)

What do you think about this? This freedom basically solves all victimless crime cases, but how do you educate the masses on their freedom??

fight on,

Gabe

audiopostman · #40 05-11-2005, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I am in Cathedral City. Where can I find the code (or if you have it that would be great too)?. Also if it is a resource other readers can look up their own jurisdiction, you may want to post a link.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've just been doing a yahoo search for "(city name) municipal code." Most of them are online and then I just search them for keywords such as "cards" or "gambling."

Your city is listed at http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com/codes/cathedral/

Gambling is covered as follows:

11.12.010 Gambling house--Conducting.

It is unlawful for any person either as principal, agent or employee, or otherwise, to keep, conduct or maintain within the city, any house, room, apartment, stand or place used in whole or in part as a gambling house or place where any game not mentioned in Chapter 10, Title 9, Part 1, of the Penal Code of the state, is played, conducted, dealt or carried on with cards, dice or other device, for money, checks, chips, credit, pennants, cigars, candy, merchandise or other valuable thing or representative of value. (Ord. 15 § 1 (part), 1982)