overpair vs. paired board

catlover · #1 11-07-2005, 04:02 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($1032.15)
Hero ($598.20)
BB ($653.23)
UTG ($793.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button calls $6, Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, Button calls $18.

Flop: ($54) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $25, Button calls $25.

Turn: ($104) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $80 , Button folds

So I bet and he folded . . . but was that the right line?

I imagine I would have folded to a big raise here. Overall I don't have a very good idea how I am supposed to play this turn.

Edit: Also I don't have much idea what my thought process should be in this type of situation.

#2 11-07-2005, 04:14 PM

I can't not bet there. I dont know how much to bet, but I know that a bet is correct.

LearnedfromTV · #3 11-07-2005, 04:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($1032.15)
Hero ($598.20)
BB ($653.23)
UTG ($793.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button calls $6, Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, Button calls $18.

Flop: ($54) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $25, Button calls $25.

Turn: ($104) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $80 , Button folds

So I bet and he folded . . . but was that the right line?

I imagine I would have folded to a big raise here. Overall I don't have a very good idea how I am supposed to play this turn.

Edit: Also I don't have much idea what my thought process should be in this type of situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is above my level, but I'll take a shot.

The only decent draw he could have is 98, probably suited. If he has a 7 or a 6, the Q knocks him down to two outs.. If he has a medium pair, he stays at 2 outs. If he has a Q, you now have two outs. If he has an ace, he has three outs, with three outs to catch a second best pair on the river.

It seems to me that if he holds any of the hands other than the straight draw, you would want to check-call the turn, and then bet the river, folding to a raise. It is more likely that he has a pair smaller than Q's than anything else, and with the top card pairing there's very little chance he calls a turn bet. But show some weakness on the turn and you may get something out of him.

I would check the turn.

Edit: Bet more on the flop? only 25 into 54? Were you trying to induce a raise?

#4 11-07-2005, 05:27 PM

I like your play... I think it was totally appropriate.

I would be most worried about a smooth call on the turn... at that point you can put him on a weak Q that he didn't really like on the flop but just couldn't get away from top pair.

Personally... I prefer to see a pair board on the flop as oppossed to the turn pairing the board. On a flop with only tow unique ranks... you actually have a better chance of someone not improving their hand.

catlover · #5 11-07-2005, 06:15 PM

Yes. I'm not saying my bet is wrong.

But the thing I like least about it is if he flat calls, the river will be very difficult to play.

#6 11-07-2005, 06:30 PM

If he calls your turn bet... you check call the river (even if he goes all in).

The reason for the river play is that he may or may-not have a Queen, but with any other hand (busted draw, underpair, ace high)... he's going to feel compelled to steal and/or value bet the river.

Checking to someone who you think you have beat is one of the strongest (and glossed over) no limit plays.

BobboFitos · #7 11-07-2005, 06:00 PM

I'd bet 30 on this flop, as was you under bet a little...

[ QUOTE ]
I would check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems to be the better move, agreed, but what is your plan if he bets? Check call two streets? Check call one, if he throws another barrel, fold?

If he checks the turn, c/c river or b/f?

lapoker17 · #8 11-07-2005, 06:12 PM

Generally, if checked to on this turn with any 2, I'm betting, and then again on the river.

BobboFitos · #9 11-07-2005, 06:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Generally, if checked to on this turn with any 2, I'm betting, and then again on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

SO I guess the "right" way to play this with KK is check/call down? Yaouch.

Pretty ugly spot, but probably what I'd do. Bet/folding is bad, and betting and getting called leaves you in the same spot as check/calling; he has position, coudl have you owned, and can make you pay to pick off a bluff.
luckily mosto f the time I only have ace or 8 high here so I can fire away on the turn, knowing my fold equity vs mid or bottom pair or a draw has increased...

lapoker17 · #10 11-07-2005, 07:05 PM

I think he played it good. In his spot, I would likely play AA/KK and AQ the same on the turn (unless I had AQ and knew villain would fire twice when checked to....).