I am the Donk. Fix me.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

I guess from the responses the hand wasn't terrible. I think the only bad part (and I realize that this is terrible) is that I tried for a C-R on the river and whiffed. I suppose that I need to change my blind defense attitude from my limit days. Implied odds make a huge difference. I still don't feel great about the preflop call though, but if i woulda led the river and gotten a very likely call out of what was AT, it could have made up for it. Oh well, thanks for the replies...

-Jihad

[rikz]

Check to induce a bluff or "value bet" from villain. Then call, just in case villain really has something good.

I think a strong bet from you doesn't get called by TPTK here. Villain could very easily have been betting a draw himself. Since you were weak on every street, why not continue to appear weak to induce that bluff from villain.

So, I say check/call given how you played it so far.

On earlier streets, though, I say bet out with the OESD and take charge of the hand from the begining instead of call pre-flop/call flop/call turn.

If you'd bet the flop, then you could bet the turn, and then value bet the river.

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop, fold on the flop, fold on the turn, then bet like crazy on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Complete preflop, bet the flop, bet the turn, bet the river.

[GrunchCan]

You sure this isn't one of my hands?

[AgentBishop]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop, fold on the flop, fold on the turn, then bet like crazy on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Complete preflop, bet the flop, bet the turn, bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lots of advise here, huh. My advise might not be outstanding but at least he has some knowledge of how to play a hand that is similar. Not what to do in this exact situation that won't happen often enough for your post to be of any help. Padding the post count?

I think, if you have to ask(not to be rude), you should fold preflop. Because odiously you don't play well enough post flop to make these tough decisions. So,
Pre-flop:
fold
Flop:
1. check raise if he is weak tight and makes continuations bets a lot. Then bet out on the turn if a blank or straight scare card hits.
2. fold unless you are REALLY sure you can get paid off if you hit. 2:1 pots odds on an, at best, 4.88:1 shot doesn't help your long term EV.
Turn:
fold. 13 total outs to two pair or better but only 8 are "clean" outs and 5 "dirty" outs that could give villain a straight or a flush. So guestimate 11 outs, so that's a 3.18:1 shot on 2:1 odds he's giving you again.
River:
2/3 pot for value and call a reasonable raise.

[edge]

I much prefer to be in charge of a hand. The preflop decision can go either way; it doesn't make a huge difference if you complete or fold.

On the flop, you have eight outs to a huge hand in a 3-way unraised pot. Since your hand can take a lot of heat, and can stand a raise, bet out and see if anyone has something worth calling. A lot of the time, you'll take it down on the flop and the hand is over. The times you don't, you still have eight outs to a big hand.

If he smoothcalls the flop, the turn improves your hand. Now you may have as many as five more outs, giving you a total of thirteen winning outs on the river. What range of hands can a villain have after calling the flop? The flush draw is quite possible, and you don't want to take your foot off the pedal against someone drawing to the flush. Make him pay to hit his card against odds. He could also have a 6 or 5, in which case he'll fold to a turn bet most of the time. If he has a T or is slowplaying something, you still have eight outs to beat him, and if he calls to lay the trap again, you can hurt him big on the river if you hit.

On the river, you just hit a totally hidden trips. If he has a T, you have him crushed. If he has two pair, even worse for him. If you think he was on a flush draw, check/call to snap off a bluff; otherwise, bet 2/3-3/4 of the pot since you're beating more possible hands than you're losing to.

One other reason to play this aggressively is to help your other hands. You should be betting flops like this with a wide range of hands, from draws to sets to absolute nothing. Again, a lot of the time, this flop won't have hit anyone hard, and you can take it down. Since you're in the SB, you can represent hitting rag flops that limpers would have missed.

When I look at your advice to fold because of odds, it just boosts my reasoning for betting. If you take charge of the hand, you force people to fold better made hands and hands that are drawing very live against you because they're not getting proper odds. Little do they know that your made hand is four-high at the moment.

[Macquarie]

You say we have eight outs on the flop, and if villain calls he's very possibly on the flush. Surely then we only have six outs that can stand any sort of heat?

Isn't this sort of agressive straight draw play much stronger on a rainbow board?

[MTBlue]

I'll give Edge some back-up. By being aggressive you'll take down the pot alot of the time and you have back-up if someone wakes up with a hand. Secondly if that 2 falls you will stack two pair+ every single time. The two flush decreases the value of the hand but isn't killer. Hell if you are really creative and think the caller has a Ten (most likely in my experience) you can bluff the flush. If the guy is on the flush draw, your pair of threes wins the pot the majority of the time. I dump the turn if its a three flush and fold to a raise if the flush card completes my straight but this hand is an example of the classic semibluff. You have the worst hand that has serious hidden monster potential. Folding preflop is a fine but folding the flop is criminal.

One of the reasons that you want to play aggressively is to find out if your opponenent is indeed on the flush draw. So if you know he has a flush draw, you don't have 6 outs, you have way more. You can bet the pot on the turn and try to take it down or make a small turn bet and then depending on the river, if non flush card hits you can bet the same amount again.

I'm not saying this is the right way, but if I do have a read such as this, this is how I would play it.

ViolentGandhi