Is Playing Poker Professionally Ethical?

[JimMorris]

This is a very important question to me, and I have not yet found satisfactory intellectual discussion of it in the forums. I've been an Internet pro for close to a year, making about $75 per hour, 30 hours per week. I love the lifestyle, and I'm happier than I've ever been in my life. But... Is my making a living this way ethical? Am I hurting people by taking money that they need? How much of this money is contributed by problem gamblers that can't afford to lose it, yet dig themselves deep into debt trying to win back their money? How many people are deceived into poker addiction by the TV shows saying "anybody can make a final table"?
Many winning players probably try not to think about these questions or they don't care. Or they have some simple justifications like:
"I'm providing people entertainment and action"
"It's their own fault if they can't afford to lose"
"If I wasn't winning it someone else would be"
Do these justifications hold up under ethical scrutiny? There is a massive flood of money flowing into the online poker sites' accounts and into winning players' pockets. What are the various precepts under which this money flows in, and what are the effects on society?
Poker is fundamentally a game of deception and trickery. You want people to believe that you're bluffing when you have it, and you want them to believe that you have it when you're bluffing. This is the way to make money: deception and trickery, both are considered unethical in most contexts. Yet in poker they aren't, because everyone knows that this is the basis of the game.
However, there is a different kind of deception that goes on: *** "When players are winning, they generally think it's skill. When players are losing they generally think it's bad luck." *** Based on this, the up and down swings of the game are very deceptive and confusing to most players. I think this is why there are so many accusations that "online poker is rigged". Most people don't have the ability to push their understanding of the game deep into the realms of probability and frequency analysis, they are caught up in the emotions of individual hands rather than long term EV.
Most players will lose, that's all there is to it. But how many of them actually willingly accept that they're paying an acceptable amount of money for entertainment? In essence, I think what an online pro does is increase the average amount of money that losing players will pay for their entertainment, by decreasing the average amount of time that their money lasts. Again, is this ethical?
In addition to the question of playing professionally, what kind of ethical analysis can we apply to the poker boom in general? Can the recent poker outbreak be compared to an outbreak of opium, cocaine, or other expensive, addictive substances within a society? Is it possible that poker is having effects on society similar to these types of drugs, but we just don't realize it? (Not to say that drugs are bad, just to say that addiction is bad.)
I look forward to hearing other people's thoughts on these issues. Let's try to be as unbiased as possible, even though we're all poker players.

[jakethebake]

Why does some moran have to bring this up once a week?

I don't believe in morals or eithics. But playing poker makes me feel bad because of all the harm I am probably causing some people, so I'm kind of in the same position as you.

For those who have eithics/morals, I don't see how it can be rationalized. I believe the situation is similar to this:

Some average Joe is convinced he is an awesome paper rock scissors player, and is addicted to the game. However he's not very good, he always picks paper. He likes to play $100 a game. You come along, play him, beat him for every penny he's got, and walk away. He happens to have a wife and children, and they are now homeless and in real bad shape. Who here thinks this is not wrong, however you define it?

[ QUOTE ]
Why does some moran have to bring this up once a week?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen it brought up in math/science/philosophy recently

Different people read different groups of forums

I don't play professionally although i have goals of eventually doing so, and I have thought the same thing as you: is this a worthy profession or a lowlife way of making a living off the weakness of others?

I have concluded that there is nothing wrong with it based on the following rationale.

1) I am playing against other consensual adult players.

2) Poker is a competition and people like to risk money to compete. Just because I happen to win in this competition, I shouldn't feel bad about it. If I were to lose, I'd take responsibility for my own actions rather than feel violated by the winners. And lots of money in the economy operates on a similar "feel good to compete" mindset. Consider a pro sports teams. The billions generated by pro sports comes from people who get a thrill out of the competition, even if it is just vicariously through their favorite team. Is the $60 the NFL team charges at the gate any more or less moral than the $60 a poker tournament costs? What about other entertainment venues? If a person loses $100 playing cards, is this less moral than $100 on videos, concerts, or other activities?

3) I can't feel guilty if there's a small percentage out of control addicted to gambling. Just like a beer company shouldn't feel guilty if not everyone can control alcohol responsibly.

4) If Joe Schmo decides to open a business and gets creamed by the competition and his wife and kids are left out to dry, we say that's the perils of doind business. If Joe Schmo decides to play poker and loses, that's the perils of playing poker. Every economic pursuit has risks and tough competition, so a guy can go bust as easily opening a restaurant as he can trying to be a poker pro.

That's about my line of thinking for what its worth.

FWIW, here's where I put poker in the professional ethics scale:

Mother Theresa equivalent
Doctors without borders volunteer
nurse
public service lawyer
teacher
well meaning social worker
construction worker/waiter/secretary
telemarketing
amway sales person
corporate lawyer/businessman
criminal defence attorney
Poker Professional
slot machine maker / promoter, casino owner
pick pocket
nigerian scammer
white collar thief
burglar
mob lackey
contract killer

[ QUOTE ]
3) I can't feel guilty if there's a small percentage out of control addicted to gambling. Just like a beer company shouldn't feel guilty if not everyone can control alcohol responsibly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not conviced here. If heroin was legalized, would you feel guilty selling heroin and profiting from it? This all seems very grey to me

[JimMorris]

Jake,
I did numerous forums searches and couldn't find discussions of these questions. If you know of existing discussion threads, please post a link to them. Thanks.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Jake,
I did numerous forums searches and couldn't find discussions of these questions. If you know of existing discussion threads, please post a link to them. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. I'm too lazy to go searching for this for you. But it has been discussed to death, mostly in NVG.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3) I can't feel guilty if there's a small percentage out of control addicted to gambling. Just like a beer company shouldn't feel guilty if not everyone can control alcohol responsibly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not conviced here. If heroin was legalized, would you feel guilty selling heroin and profiting from it? This all seems very grey to me

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not selling poker.