Playalong JJ - Page 2

NLSoldier · #1 12-26-2005, 01:53 AM

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reads?

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none other than that UTG is getting fairly low on money. Hes got about 4.5BB left going into the flop. (however I didnt notice this till the turn)

#2 12-26-2005, 01:48 AM

Raise.

Lmn55d · #3 12-26-2005, 01:50 AM

NL, my default line is to raise the flop and calldown if 3bet (obviously depending on future action). I like raising the flop because it gives BB about 8:1 which is enough to make calling with a 3 outer incorrect. Also, if you're behind to UTG it costs you less.

I can see some arguments for other lines though. Waiting until the turn to raise will allow you to cut BB's odds further if you are ahead. However, unless you are prepared to fold to a 3bet, this line is more expensive. An advantage is that you can choose not the raise if the turn is a bad card (an A or K for example).

You will be ahead often enough that you should raise somewhere for protection and value, and I prefer raising the flop.

Lmn55d · #4 12-26-2005, 01:56 AM

Now that I think about it, if you are ahead of UTG, he and BB will share outs. In other words, BB will rarely have a true 3 outer (he will if he holds Kx and UTG holds AQ for instance). I think this makes waiting until the turn to raise more appealing.

NLSoldier · #5 12-26-2005, 02:06 AM

Sometimes I raise flop sometimes wait for the turn, I raised the flop here because I thought I might get BB to fold overs and I wanted to find out where I was at vs UTG now rather than the turn.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero ???

At this point UTG has $54 left. Given that, should I be popping the turn to try to get rid of BB?

#6 12-26-2005, 02:17 AM

Given that flop action, you should just call on the turn now. BB's outs aren't that threatening when you're most likely losing to UTG's hand. Invite the BB in for a single bet and play the hand cheaply. UTG had enough money at the start of the hand where it looks like he's not overplaying just to go all in.

NLSoldier · #7 12-26-2005, 04:46 AM

Well no one seems too interested in the turn, but I popped it and surprisingly BB insta called and UTG mucked. On to the river.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG folds.

River: (15.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ??

tongni · #8 12-26-2005, 05:02 AM

Looks like an easy check, but it depends a little bit on BB of course.

jetsonsdogcanfly · #9 12-26-2005, 08:00 AM

this seems to me like the easiest check in the world. i am very interested in hearing why it might not be. maybe some think it should be "easy" to fold to a c/r, but I don't like putting myself in the position of having to make the decision for one more bet in a 17bb pot, especially when there really arent many hands he can just call with that i beat.

NLSoldier · #10 12-26-2005, 12:16 PM

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this seems to me like the easiest check in the world. i am very interested in hearing why it might not be. maybe some think it should be "easy" to fold to a c/r, but I don't like putting myself in the position of having to make the decision for one more bet in a 17bb pot, especially when there really arent many hands he can just call with that i beat.

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the case I can make for betting is that since his hand looks so much like spades, I think it is very likely that he realizes his hand looks like spades and would donk if he made a flush. however, like you said, he could have a lot of other non spade hands that are still beating me, which is what pushed me back in the direction of checking.