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#42
07-26-2004, 05:57 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
Hey guys,
ATo should be folding preflop in this situation. I have played against very, very, very, very few players in the past month that I wouldn't fold this against. The added info that EP raises small to medium pocket pairs in this spot doesn't make up for the fact that you're dominated against his RANGE of hands here and will lose money postflop on average, IMO. That's not saying you won't be able to make +EV decisions, but that when you hit and are still behind on the flop you lose a bunch, and when you hit and are ahead, you gain very little. Well, I guess we are just going to have agree to disagree on this one. It is no doubt a marginal situation, and a rare one at that, so either choice won't have a huge effect on your long-term BR. Calling preflop in headsup pots out of position with a dominated hand IS a huge leak, and it WILL have a significant impact on your BR. A lot of the poker authorities on 2+2 will probably say that calling here is alright or that it is at worst a minute error, but I strongly disagree and continue to disagree with the loose advice often seen in the SS and Micro boards as of late. They tell you to be loose preflop and coldcall with A6s or whatever because the odds of you flopping two pair or better or a draw is whatever, and then they tell you not to fold top pair postflop in a raised pot. To the beginning to novice to intermediate player, this instructional is going to end up costing you money in my opinion, and it certainly isn't going to prepare you for when you move up and are facing oppnonent who will be able to exploits these leaks of yours, which is what I see as the purpose of the SS and Micro forums. Yes, there are times when making these loose preflop plays are alright, but you should be being taught to recognize these plays, not to blindly make them. It's like when people say, "If you always took AA to showdown, you wouldn't be losing money." Okay, that's nice. It's a true statement, but that doesn't mean you should never fold AA postflop. Would a novice player who took this advice make money with AA? Of course, but they wouldn't learn to maximize EV, they wouldn't learn to recognize correct situational plays, they wouldn't be making as much money, they'd have a higher SD, and they wouldn't be getting prepared for deeper thinking, higher stakes, and tougher opponents. I guess if I'm going to complain about I should be posting more regularly in those forums though, huh? Okay, I will. Rant over. GoT 
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#46
07-26-2004, 06:43 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
[ QUOTE ]
I think folding to this preflop raise is horrible. I may even three bet depending what I think of the raiser. [/ QUOTE ] This isn't a steal raise, this is a legitimate EP raise. I routinely muck AJo and would grudgingly call with AQo. 3-betting is throwing away money against any reasonable opponent..
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#49
07-26-2004, 06:57 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
Yes, it IS an easy preflop fold, but I think the point should be the post flop play once he already is in trouble.
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#50
07-26-2004, 07:00 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
I don't understand why this thread is so huge.
It's so huge because for the past several months, the SS and Micro forums have been told to play loosely preflop and to look for reasons NOT to fold without being given the proper qualifiers. The fact that some really think this is a justified call preflop makes me think that there are many, many other places preflop that posters here are playing hands they should fold. And it's not their fault that they're making these mistakes. GoT
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