BB defense...this is ugly

[brazilio]

This is the worst advice yet in this thread. Stop making a correlation between TAG stats and a steal.

[sean c]

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KJo is not a very good starting hand. I'd just fold it against a raise.

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Villian open/raised from the CO I would 3-bet this all day long.

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fixed

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Against this type of villian I don't completely agree with this. Three betting or calling is better than folding IMO but I don't think its an auto three bet.

[JinX11]

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This is the worst advice yet in this thread. Stop making a correlation between TAG stats and a steal.

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Sorry - I tend to save raises for situations where I think I am ahead or think I have an equity advantage. In this situation, I do not think this is the case - I think more often that not you are behind here; sometimes, you're even dominated. I suppose this is where we disagree - you think we're more often ahead here?

EDIT: wait - what exactly are you trying to say in your post? Do you mean I should "start" making a correlation between TAG stats and a steal? -- meaning the Villian is more likely stealing and, therefore, we should raise back? If you are going to attack ppl's advice, maybe you could articulate some better. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[lil']

You can't fold K-Jo to a late raise heads up when you are in the BB. If you fold in this spot routinely, you are getting run over in the blinds.

You also can't auto 3 bet with this hand like it's a world beater every time, because it isn't. It may be right to do so sometimes, but in this case, with the information given in the original post, it isn't for 2 reasons:
1) The raiser is tight
2) The raiser is coming in from the CO, not the button. It DOES make a difference.

Calling is fine.

Your flop bet was raised, which should give you some information. If he had missed this flop, he would be hard pressed to continue on. Unless he has a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], an ace, nine or decent PP, your bet puts a lot of pressure on him. But, he raised, indicating he is not going away and he has one of those things (unless he is on a total bluff). In order for your three bet semibluff to be worthwhile, you really have to put him on EXACTLY a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw, otherwise you are putting money in as an underdog. Also, if you do catch your flush, he may toss it.

[peterchi]

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I probably would have check raised the flop, bet the turn, and check folded the river.

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And if he 3-bets my flop c/r, I check/call the turn & check/fold the river UI.

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[peterchi]

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KJo is not a very good starting hand. I'd just fold it against a raise.

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Villian open/raised from the CO I would 3-bet this all day long.

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fixed

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MAYBE 3-bet, but not all day long. I'd need a better read on villain; KJo is certainly worthy of blind defense, but I personally hate this hand a lot. I'd be more inclined to 3-bet if I was fairly sure I could take it down UI on the flop or turn based on villain's tendencies.

[sy_or_bust]

The 3-bet preflop wouldn't be for value in this situation. The player described seems less likely to be fooling around with T9o hands in this spot, and probably has a tighter stealing range than most TAGs. This generally means a showdown hand, like Ax, PP, with some sparse K/Q hands.

You can 3-bet to take control of the hand against a player who raises/folds too much, but this is a better move when your hand has showdown value. Essentially you're trying to convince them that, when they whiff the flop, they should fold. Doesn't work as well against tight stealers.

So I prefer calling and checkraising the flop here (you can do this on most flops if you know your opponent well enough).

he has only played 40 hands or so with the opponent. default play is to open raise from the co, so why should i believe this guy has me beat with KJo. he could be raising much much weaker hands here. i would say anywhere from QJ to any pocket pair maybe a suited ace.

blind play is roughly 20% of your game. knowing when to 3 bet and who to do it agaist is vital. like i said unless you know he will only steal with premium hands, you hsould 3 bet. even if we are up against a dominating hand, we have one of his out and he will miss his flop 2/3 of the time...since he is a tag he will give up on the flop or turn when he misses which will be the majority of the time. but chances are we are not dominated anyway.

[lil']

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default play is to open raise from the co

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Actually, for a tight player, the default play is to fold from the CO, not raise.

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he could be raising much much weaker hands here. i would say anywhere from QJ to any pocket pair maybe a suited ace.

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You're behind to all of these except Q-J.

[JinX11]

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he has only played 40 hands or so with the opponent. default play is to open raise from the co, so why should i believe this guy has me beat with KJo. he could be raising much much weaker hands here. i would say anywhere from QJ to any pocket pair maybe a suited ace.

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You do realize that you are ahead of only one of the items you listed, right (QJ)? All of the other "weaker" hand you have listed - pocket pair, suited ace - are, in fact, ahead.

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blind play is roughly 20% of your game. knowing when to 3 bet and who to do it agaist is vital. like i said unless you know he will only steal with premium hands, you hsould 3 bet. even if we are up against a dominating hand, we have one of his out and he will miss his flop 2/3 of the time...since he is a tag he will give up on the flop or turn when he misses which will be the majority of the time. but chances are we are not dominated anyway.

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Maybe - you can make a case for taking control of the hand with a pre-flop 3-bet, assuming that the flop will miss your opponent. However, if I want to push a potential stealer off his hand, I would prefer a flop checkraise rather than pre-flop 3-betting a somewhat marginal offsuit hand heads-up, out-of-position. A good opponent will realize that the flop is likely to miss you, too, and will be capable of playing back at you, as well. I think a flop checkraise carries a little more weight and it also gives me the advantage to see if the a) flop hits me or b) the flop likely did not hit him.