I check behind flop and get blasted

[Aloysius]

Flop-check on hand 1 seems like the optimal line. You want another card off, and too likely that he'll play back at you or he simply has you crushed.

Are you wondering if a continuation bet helps you make a decision to call on the turn? If he flopped a boat or trips, you're seeing a turn as he's trapping with either hand, and once that 8 comes off, I don't see how you get away from it.

Second hand - I'd be surprised if he didn't have a boat the way it was played. I think this is a difficult hand not to lose a lot on (I think you have to raise the turn here). I don't see how a flop-check is anything but correct.

i get stacked on first hand.
second hand why raise???

[fathertime]

6 max on button or co is standard raise. Looks like it was folded to TWP which can be a standard button raise with any 2.

[Malachii]

I think he means why raise the turn? I agree.

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he means why raise the turn? I agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same. I can't think of what hand range this raise maximizes profit against, unless you are willing to call a push from AK/T9/Kx. Against hands WA or WB you, it likely costs you money compared to calling turn, calling river (since he gets a chance to fold his WB hand instead of firing again on the river with it).

I can see wanting to protect/get some money in when many river cards kill your action/kill your hand, though. Tough spot.

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like it was folded to TWP which can be a standard button raise with any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very wide statement. To open with any two on the button, the folding equity has to be near perfect (they'll fold 2/3 of the time to a 3BB raise for example) or you have to be confident you're crushing your opponents postflop. Shania is not as valuable as most would like it to be against players who are giving you money (LAGs, fish, etc.).

[TheWorstPlayer]

I agree. Raising any two is a losing play.

[fathertime]

Overstated--yeah, I agree. But I've been successful raising on the button when it is folded to me. I'm probably doing this over 70% of the time and winning the hand a lot of times preflop.

There are times, however, when I will do it less or not at all. Mainly when I'm up against folks who defend their blinds well or when there is a maniac at the table or when I'm not playing well or running badly.

But, in general, yes I've been raising any two successfully when folded to on the button. My flop aggression ain't that high either.

[fathertime]

I give you a bit more on why I'll generally raise with any two when folded to on the button:

1. folks often won't defend
2. if they do they will often fold to any continuation bet--no matter what amount
3. raising more often tends to give me more action
4. it gives me a chance to practice playing the board and what the other player has
5 it gives me a chance to practice playing a PAG style where I force the other player to have a good hand so as to win the pot
6. it forces opponents to put a wide range on what cards I might be holding

There are times when I won't raise with any two on the button. See my response to TWP for them. What I am not doing is raising for Shania reasons. I'm looking to win the hand preflop or with a cb on the flop. Just to give credence to my contention that such a play can be ev+: my win % when I see a flop is around 46-48%.

And so as a general rule, I'd say not raising any two on the button when folded to you is a very wide statement. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[fathertime]

Don't understand your question mark in hand 1? Why are you debating the call?

Hand 2 doesn't look like that jack bothers him one bit. If he is good and tricky I might call. If he is aggressive, I'm puking and calling. If he is tight and straightforward, I'm folding.