Did I play this too fast? - Page 6

dreddie26 · #51 02-09-2005, 01:01 PM

yep didn't see that with the different person raising. So i can agree with you on the JJ.
In another post you say yourself with 4 other persons are in the pot. Then youre math can be correct. But as i understand it it is the hero with 3 others in the pot. Of wich i would say at leat one of them will fold with a bet/raise on the turn.
So with 1:4 odds, i see het as EV at max and probaly less.

PS what does CO have that he is calling all these raises ?

GrunchCan · #52 02-09-2005, 01:04 PM

check-raise the river. Otherwise, perfect.

jaxUp · #53 02-09-2005, 01:13 PM

OMFG. I swear I am hallucinating. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Given that there are only 4 (not 5 as I retardedly mentioned on multiple occasions) the turn bet is hit and miss and very table/read dependant. I am going to go get some fucl<ing sleep or something. All of the math that I did was for % players on the turn, and is right I think. It is however, inapplicable here as I am a moron. I guess on the plus side, we all had a nice discussion about not seeing monsters and discounting outs, and betting with the right number of callers. Great fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

As for what CO has, dred, I can say probably a decent draw with a pair. somethin like J9 might have kept him around.

I had a very fun time discussing this hand (at great length) and got a chance to try out my math skills. My retard factor on this hand was a bit high. Sorry about that.

pokerrookie · #54 02-09-2005, 01:47 PM

On some level, isnt he just throwing bets away if he raises the river. In addition to JJ, I think you could consider him as having any set. Villains flop action seems like a slow play. The eight didn't represent a scare card, even as he was bet into for the second time. He raised. Isn't it common knowledge that a bluff raise two times should be taken as not a bluff but a made hand. I think it was played too quickly and while the 8 gave you trips, I am guessing it made him full. I would have called the turn, check/called the river. If you win, you only miss out on one BB. But perhaps I am too cautious. A BB saved is a BB won.

pokerrookie · #55 02-09-2005, 01:49 PM

CR for value, or to get JJ to fold? No way anyone folds JJ with this board.

jaxUp · #56 02-09-2005, 01:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On some level, isnt he just throwing bets away if he raises the river. In addition to JJ, I think you could consider him as having any set. Villains flop action seems like a slow play. The eight didn't represent a scare card, even as he was bet into for the second time. He raised. Isn't it common knowledge that a bluff raise two times should be taken as not a bluff but a made hand. I think it was played too quickly and while the 8 gave you trips, I am guessing it made him full. I would have called the turn, check/called the river. If you win, you only miss out on one BB. But perhaps I am too cautious. A BB saved is a BB won.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a river 3-bet is spewing at all. raise from EP is typically a big hand, not 88, 77, or 55. If he hadn't raised pf, then yes, his play would reek of a set, but I think that in this case it really doesn't. You are very often seeing a hand like KJs, AJ, and occasionally a slowplayed overpair (not often at all). The other 2 players in the hand only make it more worthwhile to 3-bet. Their extra BBs make up for when you are beat by the only real scary hand: JJ (and as extensively discussed, it's not really that likely, maybe 1 in 10 times).

Niediam · #57 02-09-2005, 05:01 PM

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say that such a situation existed in this example... just that it is another benefit of raising that sometimes occurs.

Niediam · #58 02-09-2005, 05:04 PM

Do you really believe that when some raises in EP at microlimits that they will have AA-JJ most of the time? Id say AK AQ AJ AT and even worse are much more likely. I do think however that the correct play is a lot closer if we knew that hero needed to improve in order to win the pot...

Nick Royale · #59 02-09-2005, 05:42 PM

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me + the other 4. so, if they all call I put in 1/5 of the bets or 20 %. If one folds it's me + 3 others, so I put in 1/4 of the pot or 25%

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You're not in the pot. Hero + 3. Hero's putting in 33% of the money at the turn if one person folds making the bet is -EV (unless you think the 8 is gonna hold up alone)