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  #1  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:23 AM
Somekid Somekid is offline
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Default Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

I've been working on my HU game lately. I'm having fun but feel a little lost. It's hard to develop good reads when you only play about 30-50 hands against an opponent so I only note their general style (loose/tight, passive/aggressive) and if they do something completely strange.

Hand 1:
Villain is a straightforward player. Although he seems a bit tight for HU play.
I have A2o in the SB/Button
I raise PF, Villain calls.
Flop: Ad 4d 4h
Villain checks, I bet, Villain folds.

I think I should've checked behind here. I'm WA/WB. If he has an ace or a four, I'm toast. He's probably not calling my bet with anything else other than a flush draw. So I should probably check behind and hope to induce a bluff on the turn. If he checks the turn I need to re-evaluate depending on the card and think about either betting or checking again (hoping to induce a bluff). What does everyone think?

Hand 2
standard opponent. a bit loose-passive although he's tried some weird stuff a couple times.
I have Kd7d in the BB
Villain open completes in the SB/Button, I raise, Villain calls.
Flop: 8h 2h 8c
I bet, Villain calls.
Turn: 6c
I bet, Villain calls.
River: Jd
I check, Villain bets, I call.

What does everyone think?

I thought check calling the river on hand two was the right play for a couple reasons. I don't see any point in betting because he'll never call me with a worse hand, therefore I should check. So the question is do I check/fold or check/call. The river is 5BB. I figured that most players in his situation, will take a shot at the river because my play looks like I gave up with overcards. I think check/calling will be good 1 in 5.


Preflop decisions:
J7o in the SB/Button....raise or fold preflop? no reads.
J2s in the SB/Button....raise or fold preflop? no reads.
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

Hand 1 is played fine. There is no reason to check the turn behind, because you want to steal pots like this when you have J9o or something equally random. If you check the flop behind it's not going to trick him into calling down with nothing, and limits your future opportunities.

Hand 2 I'm not as sure what to make of it. Villain is playing pretty strangely, but has given every indication that he is showdown bound. It's hard to have that inclination with a hand worse than K7s, and bluffing a missed heart draw isn't going to happen more than 1 in 5 times. The jack isn't a great card for you either, since it's an overcard that villain could have been (incorrectly) drawing to and now hit. I check and fold.
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:11 AM
Chairman Wood Chairman Wood is offline
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

HU play: it's so tough to give really good answers to your questions. So much depends on your opponent and also on what your opponent thinks of you. Further what does your opponent think you think of him? Everything is player dependent.

Hand 1: Against this player this really depends on what you have been doing in the hands before this. After your pre-flop raises have you been auto-betting nearly every flop? Autobetting every A hi or other hi card flop? Have you been caught? If you have been auto-betting nearly every flop then its probably best to bet again. If not, then I would say 40% of the time you could check this. Try to get some bets from him on later rounds.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm WA/WB

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not necessarily sure where I'm going with this but I just hate this way of thinking heads up. There are so many types of players that do so many different things HU that I think players really hurt themselves when they try to think of things like this. I don't know what I want to say but I think you should focus on if this player will call a flop bet here with K (or Q) [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Hand 2
[ QUOTE ]
standard opponent. a bit loose-passive although he's tried some weird stuff a couple times.


[/ QUOTE ] If you check this river you are folding this river. In SS HU play I tend to see that with hands like this you are better to bet this hand as a bluff then you are to try to check and induce a bluff. This is because you just don't see the all out bluff that much with a missed draw after you check to induce it much but you will see a value bet with a split 6 or maybe even a split 2 often (or 33, 44, etc). I think you are better betting here to try to get a hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to fold then you are trying to get 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to bet. EDIT: BTW, I think check/fold is a better here then bet.

PF decision 1: J7o Raise
2:J2s Fold. Suited is always cooler but its just not as cool HU.
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  #4  
Old 12-31-2005, 10:02 AM
Somekid Somekid is offline
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

So does everyone think I can make more of a long term profit in Hand 1 by betting the flop or would it be for metagame considerations? While I agree that the whole WA/WB idea is overused and not necessarily appropriate for HU play, I just couldn't see profiting from a flop bet.

I'm still having trouble finding a line in hand 2. I don't like betting the river. I don't like my chances of pushing off an ace here. Everything the Villain has done suggests he's heading to showdown. So maybe check/folding is the right line, although I feel like this might make the Villain think I'll fold easily. Does anybody else have an opinion of hand 2?
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2005, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

Hand 1: You have to bet that flop - your assumption that you are WA/WB is way off (no pun intended). Many players will peel here with any pocket pair, and also hands like k 9, jq, hoping you will check the turn.

Not betting this flop is also the most transparent slow play in the world. If you had j9 would you bet this flop to represent the ace? Of course you would. Even the poorest players are able to see through the ol' raise pre flop check the ace high flop trick. When someone does this to me, they have an ace. Always. Always always. So bet the flop and hope he pays you off with a worse hand, which he often will.

Hand 2: I think the river is a check/ fold here, although it's not a terrble board for a K high call down. I have trouble making it though, I think. The fact is that when he calls the turn and you have just K high, you're probably not good all that often.
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  #6  
Old 12-31-2005, 10:28 AM
SoSo SoSo is offline
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop decisions:
J7o in the SB/Button....raise or fold preflop? no reads.
J2s in the SB/Button....raise or fold preflop? no reads.


[/ QUOTE ]

this depends entirely on how the game has been playing.
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  #7  
Old 12-31-2005, 10:40 AM
Somekid Somekid is offline
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

Well I don't really agree with your assesment that I'm not WA/WB. You merely said it was way off and then pointed out that I would take the same line with a different hand. That doesn't change the fact that I'm WA/WB. If he has an ace or a four...I have almost no outs. If he doesnt have a flush draw, he has very few outs. I didn't really consider the flush draw since I figured he would call to the river no matter what with a flush draw.

That being said, I like your reasoning about me representing an ace. You're right, I would bet J9o in the same situation. That being said, I still think the villain would be extremely likely to fold this flop and not peel. Although I would represent an ace here almost 100%, the extremely ugly flop and my chance of having an ace may make a villain just give up.
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Old 12-31-2005, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

[ QUOTE ]
Well I don't really agree with your assesment that I'm not WA/WB. You merely said it was way off and then pointed out that I would take the same line with a different hand. That doesn't change the fact that I'm WA/WB. If he has an ace or a four...I have almost no outs.

You're right - I should have expressed myself more clearly. What I meant to say was that in all likelyhood you are way ahead. Assuming he 3 bets any decent ace you have the best hand a high proportion of the time, and the others, if he has a weak ace, you are often going to split by the time all five cards are out. Sure, he may have a four, it happens, and if it does you're just going to have to pay him off. But I really think that HU you have a very strong hand here, and the question then becomes how best to extract value from it, the answer to which IMO is to play it fast. People are much less willing to give credit for the ace here HU, assuming you are raising your SB with the correct frequency. I will peel that flop with all sorts of cards, simply for the fact that often when you do bet it you WILL have j9o, and by flat calling this dry board I can take it away on the turn when you check. The one time I will turbo fold quicker that you can whistle is if you check the flop. Although this seems counter-intuitive, the best way to get paid off is to play it fast and hope he does not give you credit and peels/ tries to pull a move.
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Old 12-31-2005, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Couple HU hands and a couple HU PF decisions.

Messed up using the quote function there.....

"Well I don't really agree with your assesment that I'm not WA/WB. You merely said it was way off and then pointed out that I would take the same line with a different hand. That doesn't change the fact that I'm WA/WB. If he has an ace or a four...I have almost no outs."

You're right - I should have expressed myself more clearly. What I meant to say was that in all likelyhood you are way ahead. Assuming he 3 bets any decent ace you have the best hand a high proportion of the time, and the others, if he has a weak ace, you are often going to split by the time all five cards are out. Sure, he may have a four, it happens, and if it does you're just going to have to pay him off. But I really think that HU you have a very strong hand here, and the question then becomes how best to extract value from it, the answer to which IMO is to play it fast. People are much less willing to give credit for the ace here HU, assuming you are raising your SB with the correct frequency. I will peel that flop with all sorts of cards, simply for the fact that often when you do bet it you WILL have j9o, and by flat calling this dry board I can take it away on the turn when you check. The one time I will turbo fold quicker that you can whistle is if you check the flop. Although this seems counter-intuitive, the best way to get paid off is to play it fast and hope he does not give you credit and peels/ tries to pull a move.
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