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  #1  
Old 12-28-2005, 08:48 AM
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Default Against a thinking TAG.....

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="green">Hero???</font>


Feel free to comment on any street.
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:46 AM
sean c sean c is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 391
Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

I hate the turn raise. He is never folding a better hand or a hand that has more than 3 outs against us and you can't fold to a 3 bet. I would bet the river. Getting check/raised would make me sick but i think your ahead &gt;55%.
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

grunch

3-bet the flop, don't bet the turn like you did. If he caps the flop then go steady after that.

River is close, and swings with a read if you have one? I'd prefer to c' as we aren't folding anything and I'm not sure we are ahead enough to risk the reraise when we aren't.
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:51 AM
KingOtter KingOtter is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 667
Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the turn raise. He is never folding a better hand or a hand that has more than 3 outs against us and you can't fold to a 3 bet. I would bet the river. Getting check/raised would make me sick but i think your ahead &gt;55%.

[/ QUOTE ]

The object of the turn raise isn't to get him to fold. It's because you probably have the best hand, and it is the second half of the flop-call to get more money out of Mr. TAG.

He raises you, but you have TP with 2nd best kicker, and best kicker is on the board. He probably doesn't have AK, since he would have 3-bet that pre-flop. In fact, you're only behind an A7 at that point. If you 3-bet it on the flop you'll very likely only make one more bet per street as you bet, but if you let him think he's got control you'll get an extra bet on the turn.

His likely holdings are AQ, AJ, or A7.

This might be one of those rare bet/fold situations on the river.

KO
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

Sometimes I play the same way. More often I 3-bet the flop instead of waiting to turn. Would have been interesting to know more about the player. Some players play almost any hands from BB knowing its going to be played heads up. Ax is then a possible holding.

Betting the river is a bit dangerous since u risk two bets to win one (If ure check-raised u must call, even though ure almost certain to be behind). So u need to be a lot more than 50% sure ure ahead (2/3 to be precise). Think both check and bet can be correct. Depends mostly on your opponent
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:26 PM
sean c sean c is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 391
Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate the turn raise. He is never folding a better hand or a hand that has more than 3 outs against us and you can't fold to a 3 bet. I would bet the river. Getting check/raised would make me sick but i think your ahead &gt;55%.

[/ QUOTE ]

The object of the turn raise isn't to get him to fold. It's because you probably have the best hand, and it is the second half of the flop-call to get more money out of Mr. TAG.

He raises you, but you have TP with 2nd best kicker, and best kicker is on the board. He probably doesn't have AK, since he would have 3-bet that pre-flop. In fact, you're only behind an A7 at that point. If you 3-bet it on the flop you'll very likely only make one more bet per street as you bet, but if you let him think he's got control you'll get an extra bet on the turn.

His likely holdings are AQ, AJ, or A7.

This might be one of those rare bet/fold situations on the river.

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

A thinking tag folds to the turn raise often with a hand we have dominated. A thinking tag 3-bets with hands that dominate us or at least calls down. He is not playing a naked weak ace or king this way if he is actually a thinking tag.
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate the turn raise. He is never folding a better hand or a hand that has more than 3 outs against us and you can't fold to a 3 bet. I would bet the river. Getting check/raised would make me sick but i think your ahead &gt;55%.

[/ QUOTE ]

The object of the turn raise isn't to get him to fold. It's because you probably have the best hand, and it is the second half of the flop-call to get more money out of Mr. TAG.

He raises you, but you have TP with 2nd best kicker, and best kicker is on the board. He probably doesn't have AK, since he would have 3-bet that pre-flop. In fact, you're only behind an A7 at that point. If you 3-bet it on the flop you'll very likely only make one more bet per street as you bet, but if you let him think he's got control you'll get an extra bet on the turn.

His likely holdings are AQ, AJ, or A7.

This might be one of those rare bet/fold situations on the river.

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

A thinking tag folds to the turn raise often with a hand we have dominated. A thinking tag 3-bets with hands that dominate us or at least calls down. He is not playing a naked weak ace or king this way if he is actually a thinking tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

What TAG does here would also be a direct result of what read he has of our Hero, no?
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:53 PM
GTSamIAm GTSamIAm is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 523
Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

If he's really a thinking tag and you know he'll fold marginally weak aces on the turn, I'd just call down. Otherwise you're forcing him to raise or fold, so let him bet the weaker hand for you.
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:54 PM
sean c sean c is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 391
Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate the turn raise. He is never folding a better hand or a hand that has more than 3 outs against us and you can't fold to a 3 bet. I would bet the river. Getting check/raised would make me sick but i think your ahead &gt;55%.

[/ QUOTE ]

The object of the turn raise isn't to get him to fold. It's because you probably have the best hand, and it is the second half of the flop-call to get more money out of Mr. TAG.

He raises you, but you have TP with 2nd best kicker, and best kicker is on the board. He probably doesn't have AK, since he would have 3-bet that pre-flop. In fact, you're only behind an A7 at that point. If you 3-bet it on the flop you'll very likely only make one more bet per street as you bet, but if you let him think he's got control you'll get an extra bet on the turn.

His likely holdings are AQ, AJ, or A7.

This might be one of those rare bet/fold situations on the river.

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

A thinking tag folds to the turn raise often with a hand we have dominated. A thinking tag 3-bets with hands that dominate us or at least calls down. He is not playing a naked weak ace or king this way if he is actually a thinking tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

What TAG does here would also be a direct result of what read he has of our Hero, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure but i have a hard time thinking he thinks kwaz is a bluffing laggy moron.
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2005, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Against a thinking TAG.....

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate the turn raise. He is never folding a better hand or a hand that has more than 3 outs against us and you can't fold to a 3 bet. I would bet the river. Getting check/raised would make me sick but i think your ahead &gt;55%.

[/ QUOTE ]

The object of the turn raise isn't to get him to fold. It's because you probably have the best hand, and it is the second half of the flop-call to get more money out of Mr. TAG.

He raises you, but you have TP with 2nd best kicker, and best kicker is on the board. He probably doesn't have AK, since he would have 3-bet that pre-flop. In fact, you're only behind an A7 at that point. If you 3-bet it on the flop you'll very likely only make one more bet per street as you bet, but if you let him think he's got control you'll get an extra bet on the turn.

His likely holdings are AQ, AJ, or A7.

This might be one of those rare bet/fold situations on the river.

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

A thinking tag folds to the turn raise often with a hand we have dominated. A thinking tag 3-bets with hands that dominate us or at least calls down. He is not playing a naked weak ace or king this way if he is actually a thinking tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

What TAG does here would also be a direct result of what read he has of our Hero, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure but i have a hard time thinking he thinks kwaz is a bluffing laggy moron.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? Ha! Calling Kwaz a bluffing laggy moron wasn't the intent. Doesn't Hero also raise pf with other hands like JJ/TT/KQ? If BB does know our Hero is Kwaz he probably folds outright. If he doesn't know this is Kwaz, why not c/r and lead the turn putting the pressure back on Hero and seeing what happens.

With 'thinking TAG' not 3-betting pf, I have a hard time putting him ahead of our Hero. Would he make this play with a QJs? Just trying to think of what BB might be trying to pull off here.
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