open limp from middle postion

[mj2]

what hands, if any, do you open limp from middle position? in mp2 or beyond i either open raise or fold. mp1 i will open limp with KTs, QTs, JTs, A9s, A8s, A7s.

[TheHip41]

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what hands, if any, do you open limp from middle position? in mp2 or beyond i either open raise or fold. mp1 i will open limp with KTs, QTs, JTs, A9s, A8s, A7s.

[/ QUOTE ]

why not just raise?

I can't remember the last time I open limped from MP

[mj2]

well, i think with these hands that one spot difference between mp1 and mp2 can be significant. i don't think you want to get 3 bet and be heads up out of position with these specific hands. and this seems to happen frequently in the aggressive higher limit games.

[TheHip41]

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well, i think with these hands that one spot difference between mp1 and mp2 can be significant. i don't think you want to get 3 bet and be heads up out of position with these specific hands. and this seems to happen frequently in the aggressive higher limit games.

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Then fold.

[mj2]

i'm not saying that raising with these hands from mp1 is wrong. i'm just curious to what others think. i don't see how you can fold these hands. i know most people would raise from any middle position. recently i started limping only these hands and only from mp1 after i was constantly reraised and then heads up with a not so good hand and out of positon. i think limping has 2 benefits. first you won't get 3 bet and second if there is a raise, you might get others to call the 2 bets. i feel its much better to play these hands for 2 bets against 3-4 players rather than play for 3 bets against one player. again, i would only do this from mp1. mp2 i would always raise. i know that might sound picky but i think sometimes even one seat makes a big diffence.

When playing online, I fold all of the hands you mentioned in MP1. If someone else already limped in, then I would call with all of those hands except A7s, I would call with A7s if there were 2 limpers. If I was opening in MP2, I would raise with all the hands you mentioned except A7s,QTs, I would still fold those but I would open with both in MP3. Just letting you know my default strategy for these hands in these spots, not saying my way is correct. Due to the aggressiveness of online play, I use a very tight strategy IMO with these hands in the situation you described and I am certain there are many players playing looser than this and making more money than me in these spots.

[TheHip41]

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i'm not saying that raising with these hands from mp1 is wrong. i'm just curious to what others think. i don't see how you can fold these hands. i know most people would raise from any middle position. recently i started limping only these hands and only from mp1 after i was constantly reraised and then heads up with a not so good hand and out of positon. i think limping has 2 benefits. first you won't get 3 bet and second if there is a raise, you might get others to call the 2 bets. i feel its much better to play these hands for 2 bets against 3-4 players rather than play for 3 bets against one player. again, i would only do this from mp1. mp2 i would always raise. i know that might sound picky but i think sometimes even one seat makes a big diffence.

[/ QUOTE ]

open limping suited trash and trash suited aces is a good way to get isolated by a good player. even if you have a better hand, you are going to check fold the flop a lot.

Here's what to remember. when no one has limped:

A7s from MP1 is trash, JTs from MP1 is trash, QTo is trash, KTo is trash.

Just fold and move on to the next hand.

[elindauer]

It's totally table dependent, but online I almost never do it. You'll need very passive players behind you, or perhaps very aggressive with a strong hand.

By the way, this question isn't really appropriate for this forum.

good luck.
eric

[roy_miami]

I have a pretty small sample, only 75000 hands and 25000 of that is short handed but I have had some success with these hands from early position. Most of these hands are from 15/30 and 30/60 and I pretty much limp with them all. Using OP's starting hand minus A7s. So with A9s, A8s, KTs, QTs, and TJs I have made

UTG - <font color="red"> $178 </font>
UTG+1- $1577
UTG+2- $1543
UTG+3- <font color="red"> $82 </font>

For an overall profit of $2860 or $12.27 per hand. I think you are giving up too much by folding these hands especially if you have a limper. I don't see why you should be so worried about being isolated by an aggressive player and having to fold the flop when you miss. Chances are he's not isolating you with less than K high so he has you beat. I remember playing in a game once where everybody was playing tight and aggressive preflop, mostly just blind steals. I got QTs or TJs UTG and limped. Five or six players limped in behind me. There was some pretty heavy action that hand and a big pot was created. After that hand the table loosened up considerably and there was a lot more limping, it could have been partly due to tilt or maybe it was just coincidence and everybody now has lots of limping hands but I like to think I coaxed these bad players into it by showing them its OK to limp.

Anyway, I see in your post that you know you may be giving up some profit by not playing these hands so do want you want I just thought I would share some results. I would be interested in seeing some other players results that have much larger databases than I do.

regards

[private joker]

How do you guys play pocket pairs from MP1 and MP2 when first in? I've been folding 55-22, and raising 66+. This feels arbitrary, so I'm wondering if anyone's done the math.