AA late in tourney....

[audavidb]

I will try to be as brief as possible while giving all the details...4 people left in a tourney with about $3200 prize pool, 50%, 35%, 15%, $100...I am probably the best player at the table and playing very well (although after this hand is read, no one will agree, including myself). Each player has about $800-$1200 in chips, I have $960 (shortstacked all tourney to come back to this spot)...Blinds just go up to 40-80 (No Limit), I am in the small blind and have A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] . UTG raises to $175, button folds...

Question 1-Call and go for a big kill post flop, Raise some to get money in pot, isolate, and then go for kill, Move all in and risk getting only blinds plus a little???

I did not want to only pick up the blinds but wanted to get it heads up, so I raised to $400, he called....

Flop comes K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

Question 2-bet, check?

I checked, and he bets $400, I have $560 left and there is $880 in pot plus the $400 he just bet ($1280), what do you do? call, fold, or go all in (he has me covered).....By the way the bettor is the next best player at the table if that matters.

Results after some comments.
Thanks
David

[sdplayerb]

How tight and aggressive is this player? Would be do a big bluff with a scary flop and what would he have called your big raise with?

I think I would call here. But actually would have gone allin on the flop and would have done so with any flop. Unless he is ultra aggressive and would bet the scary flop, then I would check and wait for his bet. Sounds like that is the case, but I would have planned it before checking.

What could he have?
AA- no, i think he'd reraise preflop.
AK- most people seem to go allin preflop with this hand now.
KK- I think the same
Any other K doubt he calls your raise with.
I'd guess QQ,JJ or maybe AQs.

I like your bet reraise preflop. I may have gone to 500. But again would need to know more on your opponent and what you have done until then.

I like to put in a big preflop reraise then just push allin regardless. Unless An A hits or something interesting like KK..

So I'd call.

SD

[BoBaLuEy]

The only possibilities I see for his hand are either A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] or perhaps, depending on how tight of a player he is, K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] or K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] . Although the second 2 are unlikely. If he's a tight player I would most definitely put him on a flush draw with the A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] . You most likely have him beat on the flop. Another possibility is he might have been stealing with something like KQo or KJs or something similar and didn't want to lay it down. My money is still on the A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] and I would push all-in on this hand and perhaps try to double through. In terms of tournament strategy, you are not on the bubble, so it won't be the worst news if you lost to an stray King here.

[ohkanada]

If the 4 stacks range from 800-1200, then I a pot of 300 moves you from 3rd to 1st. A pot sized raise is 605 so I would simply raise all-in.

Now if I choose to play it tricky by making it 400 which is asking him to call, I would probably bet all-in on any flop. Sure this isn't the greatest flop in the world but AK seems unlikely based on you have 2 Aces and the flop having 2 Kings. KQ is possible.

But you do have 3 options you could check and hope he bets and then call. Or you can bet out and hope he calls with a non-king hand. Folding only seems right if he would only bet with a king.

Based on how you played it I would call, but since you posted this I smell either 77 or KQ.

Ken Poklitar

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Not knowing your opponents, I like the way you played the hand. Your raise preflop is enough to keep him in, but not enough to give him good odds against AA.

On that flop, I would check also. While I would never consider folding, I would be concerned about this flop. If you bet out, he can get away from many hands that are pretty good. If you check, he might value bet many of those hands, such as AQ, 99, etc.; and he might also bluff with some pretty hopeless hands, like JTs. Give him a chance to bluff hands that are drawing dead or almost dead, rather than making it easy for him to fold those hands. Check and call is the best play. If he has a K, you're destined to go broke here, unless you're exceptional at making that read on him.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[audavidb]

I must say the responses make me feel better about my play. Let me walk you through my thoughts and the results. I thought that no way he bets a K in this spot, so I pretty much rule that out. Preflop I put him on a high pair. He has seen me be aggressive the last hour+, and I got the feeling that his raise preflop was a "I am not going to let you push this table around anymore/I finally got a hand I can play". I also figured that this was a good spot to bet (post flop), since he knew that I was the only player capable of laying down a hand, I wanted him to bet, i just didn't want it to be that much. Anyway, I put him on 10s-Qs, so I called, leaving me with $160 or 2BB left. 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] came on the turn and I was commited, he moved me in and showed me A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] and I was done.

This hand has had me aggrivated since it happened and I am glad others would have called. My thought afterwards were torn. On one side, I made a good call, I was the favorite with him on a draw and if he bets and turns his cards up, I call, so I feel I was right. The other side that makes me think this is the wrong play is I know I was the best player at the table and with $560, I could have recovered, even though I would be the shortest stack. Being a favorite doesn't always make it the right play, since, i could have had opportunities where I was a bigger favorite. Of course if no [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] comes, tourney is over and I win and am applauded for a good read and call. oh well thats poker, thanks for the responses so far, any further responses on the results are appreciated. David

[sdplayerb]

In no way was it a bad call. Even had you know it was a flush draw you were getting 1440 chips for your 560. 2.57 to 1, no brainer.
It was a situation after the flop that you were both best off getting all in. I would have gone all in if I was your opponent after the flop. But I think he was preflop was bad.

[Martin Aigner]

Sorry, but I can´t agree with you. If you regulary fold ATs for a reraise 4handed you will soon be pushed around terribly. Especially since audavidb stated that he thougt that the preflop-caller wanted to stop him beeing too aggressive. If a player plays extremly aggressive I would rarely consider mucking ATs preflop in a 4handed game. I would much more consider reraising all in with that holding or maybe just call and move all in (or call all in) no matter what flop comes. ATs is a pretty strong holding 4handed.

Regards

Martin Aigner

[sdplayerb]

Martin,

Actually I agree with you, but still need more info. If he had been overly aggressive with reraising, then yes. And then I would either rereraise, like you said, or call or push in on the flop..which basically happened.

But if he hasn't been overly aggressive with the reraise that is different and much different that initial raising.

Would you think many people would be reraising with 40%+ of their chips with no pair? Would you put him on Ax or KQ,KJ?

Obviously we were not there, so that makes it very difficult and I see both sides. But this was a reraise to 40% of his stack when all stacks are close.

But if he thought the opponent thought that of him, should he have just pushed in preflop with AA as his opponent could just think he is making a move then?

SD

[Martin Aigner]

Well, the problem with ATs is that it can easily be dominated by AK, AQ or AJ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT. So when the reraiser is a player rather on the conservative side I might well muck it to wait for a better spot, esp. when I think I am the best player in this tourney. If I thougth I was the fish on the table I might very well go for all my chips with this holding hoping to have a 50:50 chance.

"Would you think many people would be reraising with 40%+ of their chips with no pair? Would you put him on Ax or KQ,KJ?"

This depends very much on both, the original raiser and the reraiser. If the raiser is aggressive but respects reraises a lot, I might reraise sometimes with any 2 cards. If he is a rock I would only reraise with my very best hands. Especially since a rock woun´t attack the blinds too often, so there is no need to make a reraise-move with nothing.

It´s about the same with the reraiser. Is he a rock or a move-player. There are players who are aggressive enough to reraise with the hands you mentioned, and there are some who aren´t. It´s all about knowing your opponents. If it was the very first hand at this table against unknown players I would rather put him on a better hand than ATs and therefor muck it, but definitly not against everybody I´ve ever played against.

"But if he thought the opponent thought that of him, should he have just pushed in preflop with AA as his opponent could just think he is making a move then?"

Even if I had an image of a complete maniac I would not move all in with AA. The raise for 40% would still be perfect, since I would like a call from hands like KQ, KJ, QJ... QJs might call the reraise against a maniac, but I doubt that Q-high would call for all his chips.

Regards

Martin Aigner