Economic Freedom vs Social justice

[mrmazoo]

Which do you think is more important, economic freedom or social justice, and why?

It is my belief that this question gets to the heart of the fundamental disagreement between the Right and the Left. Do you agree? If not, what do you think is the fundamental disagreement?

[MMMMMM]

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Which do you think is more important, economic freedom or social justice, and why?

It is my belief that this question gets to the heart of the fundamental disagreement between the Right and the Left. Do you agree? If not, what do you think is the fundamental disagreement?

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Yes, I think that is a major distinction between Right and Left, but it encompasses more than just economic issues. Another way of looking at it is to observe that the Right is more desirous of equality of rights, whereas the Left is more desirous of equality of results.

My views, distilled, are essentially as follows: "Social Justice" is mostly nonsense. The only "justice" that really matters is the protection and preservation of individual rights, which form the basis of a free society, and from which all else flows.

"Society" is merely a collection of individuals. Protect the rights of each individual, and the rights of "society" are thereby automatically protected as well. Start trying to "protect" the rights of groups, and individuals will often get trampled.

There would be little or no need to worry about the "rights" of groups if individual rights were properly considered paramount and were protected in keeping with the Constitution and most Amendments.

[DVaut1]

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Another way of looking at it is to observe that the Right is more desirous of equality of rights, whereas the Left is more desirous of equality of results.

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First, let me say that I think there's some truth here, but this statement really deserves much more inquiry.

To begin, you may want to define what you mean by Left and Right here, in order to get this platitude to have any meaning. If by the 'Right', you mean conservative -- conservatives have historically been much more concerned with social order, tradition, and heritage than they are with an equality of rights. I think it's fair to say that the Right has historically been much more supportive of laissez-faire capitalism than the Left has, but this doesn't necessarily mean they've historically been concerned with an equality of rights.

If by the 'Left', you mean the post-60s left -- much of "the Left" (and I say this with much hesistancy because there's no easy way to define the modern left) are in fact motivated as much by an equality of rights as they are with an equality of results -- you would, I think, be hard-pressed to find many on the American Left who openly (or clandestinley) advocate an equality of results; of course, most anything we might define as being of "the Left" has a history of strong labor activism, and therefore is somewhat sympathetic (if not openly supportive of socialism and/or communism), but it's not necessarily true that labor activism and egalitarianism go hand-in-hand – there are many who support labor activism, and find themselves on ”the Left” only as means to oppose wealth, power, and social order, and don’t necessarily find themselves sympathetic or supportive towards the egalitarian ends that you refer to. And again, I would point to the United States as paradigm for a fully industrialized society that has no serious labor activism, but that has many self-described leftists -- much to the curiousity of sociologists and political scientists alike, who have written rather lengthy tomes (and proposed various theories) to try to explain why the US lacks a serious labor movement that advocates egalitarian ends.

There’s such a disparate and incongruent beliefs within both the "Right" and the "Left" that I'm not sure cliches like "the Right supports equal rights, the Left supports equal results" means much of anything without further detail (much further detail).

[TomCollins]

Economic Freedom and Social Justice are one in the same.

[MMMMMM]

Hi DVaut1,

I wrote:

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My views, distilled, are essentially as follows: ...

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[DVaut1]

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Hi DVaut1,

I wrote:

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My views, distilled, are essentially as follows: ...

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Well, okay -- but I would think it patently unfair (and relatively meaningless) if someone said:

"My views, distilled, are essentially as follows:

Right-wingers are Nazis"

...even if, of course, this contained some kernal of truth to it, as Nazis and other fascist movements are typically right-wing in nature.

So I suppose I could posit a bunch of vague generalities that are grossly disengenous at worst, and mischaracterize at best, so long as I add the caveat that these are my 'distilled' views -- but that wouldn't be particularly fair, honest, or worthwhile, IMO.

[Gunny Highway]

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Economic Freedom and Social Justice are one in the same.

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Agreed. They're exactly the same. Somehow some people seem to think that sticking their hand in my pocket equates to "social justice". How the hell is stealing just?

[DVaut1]

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Economic Freedom and Social Justice are one in the same.

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Agreed. They're exactly the same. Somehow some people seem to think that sticking their hand in my pocket equates to "social justice". How the hell is stealing just?

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I think it would be a mistake to label tax policies as the only way in which we seek out social justice.

[elwoodblues]

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Economic Freedom and Social Justice are one in the same.

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No they aren't. There might be overlap between the two (traditional Venn diagram) or Economic Freedom might be a subset of Social Justice, but they aren't the same thing.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I think that is a major distinction between Right and Left, but it encompasses more than just economic issues. Another way of looking at it is to observe that the Right is more desirous of equality of rights, whereas the Left is more desirous of equality of results.

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Some of us believe that granting more rights will yield better results.