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#11
07-22-2003, 09:28 PM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
A bet works better here than checking. You are risking $40 to win $340 if your opponents fold--and they both just checked to you--and are also likely to be put out of your misery if someone has you drawing dead. You don't have to bet if you make your flush, but it seems a lot more likely that Byron has KK, QQ, or even a smaller pair than aces or an ace with the two on board--thus there is a strong chance that Byron will fold. The MP caller could have a flush draw like you--and now believe he is drawing dead, or a hand like K10 or Q10 where he would have been correct to call for a gutshot on the flop. Any of these hands would fold to a bet. I think the most likely scenario is that he has a jack--but he might even fold that! Finally, Byron could call you with KK or QQ and you still have 8 clean outs (all the hearts but his set card).
The only downside is if one or both players call, and you make your flush, and you are bet into, you will probably have to pay them off. So there is somewhere above a 4.5 to one chance that something good will happen when you don't want it to and you will lose 80. However, the semi bluff here with the scary board is a great play--virtually risk free beyond the $40 that only has to win once in eight times for it to be a profitable bluff. If you don't bluff in this spot, when will you? 
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#12
07-22-2003, 09:36 PM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
I cannot recall him ever raising, a big field, out of the blinds with a hand like KQs or 88"
Is he really going to raise from the BB with a big ace when six are in there with him? That doesn't sound like a solid play to me. I'd rather raise with the "KQs or 88" mentioned above. or AA or JJ, for that matter.
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#13
07-23-2003, 12:37 AM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
"Is he really going to raise from the BB with a big ace when six are in there with him? That doesn't sound like a solid play to me."
I think raising AK from the BB against 6 others is a much better play than raising KQ against 6 others. Suited or not. Of course, I'd raise both in that spot almost all the time, but rarely the 88.
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#15
07-23-2003, 01:39 AM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
No silly rabbit, though I've certainly done it in LL games vs. retards.
I was saying I'd raise both AKo and KQs from the BB vs 6 limpers, but that raising the AKo is IMO the higher EV play between the two.
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#16
07-23-2003, 02:22 AM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
I don't know about that. I'm real hesitant about raising AKoff in poor position against a large field is akin to raising your bet in roulette. Pure gambling. Especially in CA, where the hands you dominate with this hand would likely have raised already, and you can be sure that the river will come if anyone has an eentsy part of the board, pumping this hand against a big field just creates a larger pot that ties them in. Better, in my mind, to just smooth call here, and power them on a later street if your hand warrants it.
The 88 and KQs, otoh, can make hands that you want people to chase. You're gambling again, but this time, I think, with money odds on your side.
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#17
07-23-2003, 02:29 AM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
hi gabe
what should you do? gabe, i think you should fold. a heart will only induce you to call in a hopeless situation. the BB wants the flush to complete which is why he checked. i think tommy posted a similar type situation a few months back. his friend had 88 or something like that and got checked to on the turn and folded from the button. i'll never forget that post, but i don't remember if tommy or louis landale posted it. i thought about that fold and thought about it. you are in the same situation here. fold gabe, that's right, fold.
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#18
07-23-2003, 02:31 AM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
I'm real hesitant about raising AKoff in poor position against a large field is akin to raising your bet in roulette. Pure gambling.
It is ludicrous to argue that raising AKo from the BB is not +EV. AKo is more likely to drag the pot than probably any other hand out there when it is six limpers to you. So therefore, raising is obviously a profitable play. The question is just whether waiting to see the flop is even more profitable... and as Dynasty generally says... it almost certainly isn't for all but the absolutely world class players. So raise your AKo next time... please.
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#19
07-23-2003, 02:33 AM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
Think about it. You prefer to raise preflop with your hands that thrive on implied odds, but prefer to limp with hands that make their money up front from reverse implied odds.
That approach is backwards. It is fair to note, however, that in this situation KQs is unique compared to say JTs or 9Ts. It has a significant amount of high card power and is unlikely to be dominated given the preflop action when no one raises.
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#20
07-23-2003, 08:24 AM
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Re: Playing with the only solid player in LA
Good advice.
Quoting from page 170 of TOP, straight from Sklansky's mouth: "If a good player checks to you, and you think there is a chance he is slowplaying the nuts, do not take a free card, do not pass go. You should not even necessarily wait until the action gets to you, just pitch your hand as soon as possible." I like to play triple pots!
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