AA with bad river card

deepsquat · #1 05-10-2005, 09:58 PM

No one on this table has really stepped out of line, pretty loose table, aggressive but def not maniacal.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

River: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP2 raises, Hero folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Should i lead this river, I would have to think some1 would be hanging around with top pair? Fold when 2 back ok?

Final Pot: 15 BB

scotty34 · #2 05-10-2005, 10:20 PM

Absolutely lead this river. If you had been raised at any point earlier in the hand, then you may want to reconsider. No one has done anything yet to suggest they have a Q. Only the most passive players wouldnt raise this flop with a Q. Half the .5/1 players will call down with any piece of the flop, not just top pair. And yes, once you lead if it is one back, make a crying call, 2 back fold.

lionhorse · #3 05-10-2005, 10:22 PM

I'd say that's a pretty good fold. There's an example like it in HEFAP. With a board like that it's pretty unlikely both of the villains are bluffing. I like the river check too.

aK13 · #4 05-10-2005, 11:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely lead this river. If you had been raised at any point earlier in the hand, then you may want to reconsider. No one has done anything yet to suggest they have a Q. Only the most passive players wouldnt raise this flop with a Q. Half the .5/1 players will call down with any piece of the flop, not just top pair. And yes, once you lead if it is one back, make a crying call, 2 back fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against 4 opponents, leading the river is spewy. I'll call for 1.

TALLBrad · #5 05-11-2005, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely lead this river. If you had been raised at any point earlier in the hand, then you may want to reconsider. No one has done anything yet to suggest they have a Q. Only the most passive players wouldnt raise this flop with a Q. Half the .5/1 players will call down with any piece of the flop, not just top pair. And yes, once you lead if it is one back, make a crying call, 2 back fold.

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Against 4 opponents, leading the river is spewy. I'll call for 1.

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I'd rather lead the river and give strong consideration to folding a raise. If it's raised and called/reraised before coming back to me I'll fold, but for 15:1 on a single raise I just might call it...it's borderline, but fits to SSH and not folding a "large" pot at the end for a single bet.

Given how the hand was played (bet and raised before coming back to decision) folding at that point is better than paying 2.

Redd · #6 05-11-2005, 12:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely lead this river. If you had been raised at any point earlier in the hand, then you may want to reconsider. No one has done anything yet to suggest they have a Q. Only the most passive players wouldnt raise this flop with a Q. Half the .5/1 players will call down with any piece of the flop, not just top pair. And yes, once you lead if it is one back, make a crying call, 2 back fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against 4 opponents, leading the river is spewy. I'll call for 1.

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I'd lead the river too. There's plenty these guys could be calling with, and if they're laggy I would've expected to hear from a queen earlier.

Rah · #7 05-11-2005, 10:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely lead this river. If you had been raised at any point earlier in the hand, then you may want to reconsider. No one has done anything yet to suggest they have a Q. Only the most passive players wouldnt raise this flop with a Q. Half the .5/1 players will call down with any piece of the flop, not just top pair. And yes, once you lead if it is one back, make a crying call, 2 back fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against 4 opponents, leading the river is spewy. I'll call for 1.

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I'd lead the river too. There's plenty these guys could be calling with, and if they're laggy I would've expected to hear from a queen earlier.

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Many passive 0.5/1 players would never raise with TPWK. Checking may induce bets from worse hands, while betting out will allow for a raise from trips. I would play it like above, checking and calling one bet while folding to a bet and a raise.

Fantam · #8 05-11-2005, 10:58 AM

I agree with Rah and anyone else who said the same.

It is very possible that someone has been calling all the way with a Q, so I would play as you did and check-call the river, but fold to a raise.

Calling a big pot for one bet with a decent hand is fine, because you dont want to lose to a bluff or some other random holding.

But when there are several opponents betting and raising a scary board, where it looks obvious that you are beaten, folding makes sense.

crownjules · #9 05-11-2005, 11:10 AM

With 4 players still hanging around on the river, I think it's very likely at least one of them had top pair and just improved to trips. I too would plan on check/calling a single bet, but with it being two bets back to you a fold is definitely the wise move.

chipshuffle · #10 05-11-2005, 11:26 AM

I agree with checking the river and calling 1 bet because of the pot size. Sounds like either the BB or MP2 thought they were slowplaying the best hand with top pair. Could have also been slowplaying 2 pair (QJ maybe). I've seen a lot of players at micro limit slow play all sorts of monster hands.