I'm very sorry

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really glad Mason called Paul's bluff. I don't like people claiming "If somebody dare to delete my post, I'm not posting anymore" so they can post whatever they want, because they feel they have different rights or status in the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Phillips please grow up.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you going to make me dig up an example of Mason doing same?

[/ QUOTE ]

Digging up things Mason has said is a waste of time. He is the owner, and he says what he wants. If you don't like things Mason, Mat, I, or moderators say or do, you really have three options:

1. Put up with it, and accept that good things often have flaws.

2. Write a constructive criticism. Don't use inflamatory terms or resort to namecalling. Instead, enumerate your gripe and offer positive suggestions about ways to remedy the situation.

3. Stop participating. You can say something nasty on your way out if you want to, but that will lose you some respect with at least a few people. (Though apparently it will gain you respect with a different group, so eh.)

I fully understand that some people aren't going to like Mason. He may make you mad, outraged, pissed off, or any number of other things. But Mason calls the shots around here, and that's not going to change, no matter how many old posts you dig up. So, at that point, you're really back to your three options.

[tipperdog]

Paul's somewhat immature ranting about the site was uncalled-for.
Mat's decision to remove the original post was wrong.
Mason's demand that Paul apologize (twice) or face banishment was overkill.
Mason's decision to ban Paul was silly.
Paul's publication of a private message was not great.
Paul's Nazi/Hitler Youth messages were wrong and offensive.
Paul's occasional contributions to this forum will be missed.
Ed is right that Paul behaves in a way that BarryG or other pros would not (or should not).
My taking pleasure in reading the silly back-and-forth between Paul/Mason/Mat was very immature...However, I'm getting what I deserve, as these threads are now giving me a headache.

[WhiskyRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But Mason doesn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, but that's really neither here nor there.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised by the responses here... to me they smack of an overwhelming naivety. Paulp compared the owner of the website to a Nazi. The owner banned him.

If you think that's extraordinary behavior, I suggest you spend a day walking into businesses, asking to speak to the owners, and then calling them names including "Nazi." How many owners do you think will toss you out? If you think it is less than a significant percentage, you're wrong.

Call your boss a Nazi, and see if you get fired.

*shrug* This is the way the world works. Walk into someone's backyard and call them names, and they will often ask you to leave. If you don't like it, feel free to diatribe about it in your LiveJournal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's where I find fault in your comparison, even though I think it's down the same road as my thought process: while this is indeed a "business" of sorts with an "owner", or someone's "backyard", the forums are (correct me if I'm wrong) a place for discourse, whereas a shoe store is not. Putting it into that context, while the owner of a shoe store who gets called a nazi may have every reason under the sun to throw out the customer, I question whether it is in the best interest of the owner of a public forum to throw the person out if reasonable discourse is being furthered (it is easy to predict that you will say Paul's statements weren't reasonable discourse, a point on which I disagree; while perhaps immature (another point on which I disagree), the fact is it simply stated opinions on the status of this site, valid opinions and valid concerns).

Here's my point. It's true, the owners of 2+2 can do whatever they want and ban whomever they want. However, they must do this with caution in order not to cross the line where the value of 2+2 as a public forum is lost. You go from the RGP end of the spectrum to the polar opposite, which is (in my opinion) completely boring and useless. I admit, that line is often hard to draw. I don't think Paul crossed it. Certainly, criticizing 2+2 and its owners constantly, thoroughly, and inappropriately may lead to a ban. However, a per se rule such as the one apparently adopted here where any criticism of the forum operators leads to a ban is uncalled for.

I would go so far as to say that Paul SHOULD be allowed more leeway. It has never been denied (for the most part) that Paul, when he does contribute, is a valuable contributer. Given his position in the poker world, be it as a player, commentator, or simply "in the know", I believe a forum such as this has added value with him as a part of it.

[RotoJeff]

[ QUOTE ]


I think you know he was not banned for that first post, I find ridiculous that just because he's PaulP he should not be banned for this post

" I am very sorry to mason that he is so lame.
I am very sorry to the forum that you're stuck with mason and the rest of the hitler youth.


I really think Paul is way off here, and I really find his intentions of putting Mason down totally disgraceful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought he was doing so in a Dean Wormer/Doug Niedermayer sort of way, but that might just be because I'm inclined to look in the most positive light here.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't like things Mason, Mat, I, or moderators say or do, you really have three options:

1. Put up with it, and accept that good things often have flaws.

2. Write a constructive criticism. Don't use inflamatory terms or resort to namecalling. Instead, enumerate your gripe and offer positive suggestions about ways to remedy the situation.

3. Stop participating. You can say something nasty on your way out if you want to, but that will lose you some respect with at least a few people. (Though apparently it will gain you respect with a different group, so eh.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post.

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
2. Write a constructive criticism. Don't use inflamatory terms or resort to namecalling. Instead, enumerate your gripe and offer positive suggestions about ways to remedy the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many have, including myself. I hope you take some of my suggestions found earlier in the thread into consideration. As it stands now, the moderation of this board is terribly inconsistent and appears to lack the communication necessary for running a board of this size.

[mex78753]

paul phillips is too gangsta to follow these so called "rules".

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
Putting it into that context, while the owner of a shoe store who gets called a nazi may have every reason under the sun to throw out the customer, I question whether it is in the best interest of the owner of a public forum to throw the person out if reasonable discourse is being furthered (it is easy to predict that you will say Paul's statements weren't reasonable discourse, a point on which I disagree; while perhaps immature (another point on which I disagree), the fact is it simply stated opinions on the status of this site, valid opinions and valid concerns).

[/ QUOTE ]

It may or may not be in Mason's best interest to run this forum the way he does. I'm not going to speculate about that, partly because I am anything but an expert in forum management.

But Mason has run this forum his way for many years now, and he will for years to come. It is what it is, and you take the good with the bad. I happen to think that, overall, it's pretty damn good, and I don't plan to leave any time soon.

Can someone link me to his blog please? Thank you. And btw, Paul Phillips acted much younger than his age, yes, and while there was an apology for deleting his original thread, I think that the moderator/owners (mat, ed, mason) are completely freaking out about this. Justifiably? Meh, it is their site, they are allowed to go on power trips if they want. As long as moderators who aren't also owners don't get power trips either.