Tourney strategy: Playing pocket pairs with raises in front of you

jwvdcw · #1 10-13-2004, 11:19 AM

I have a lot of my own thoughts on this subject, but I thought I'd start it off by asking a few questions to get the conversation started. The basic jist of this thread is to see how much you should call with a drawing hand like 66, for example. In all of these questions, the tourney has just started, you have 1000 chips, and the blinds are 10/15.

1.You have 88 on the button. MP makes a raise. You have no read whatsoever on the raiser. Everyone else folds. What is the maximum raise that you'd call preflop?

2.Same thing as question #1, except you know the raiser well and are fairly confident that he would only raise that big early on with AA or KK. Whats the most you would call?

3+4.Same questions as #1 and #2 except you're the BB, so you're already in for 15 and you won't have position postflop.

5-8. Same questions but now lets discuss if other's call the big raise in front of you(which is a good thing for you when you have a drawing hand.

0evg0 · #2 10-13-2004, 11:23 AM

Are we looking at no other callers in these situations? Obviously you might make a XxBB call with 88 and 3 callers before you that you wouldn't make with no callers in front, and yourself on the button, SB, BB.

Bernas · #3 10-13-2004, 11:52 AM

Lee Jones has a pretty good article on this.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...es/?a_id=14154

jwvdcw · #4 10-13-2004, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Are we looking at no other callers in these situations? Obviously you might make a XxBB call with 88 and 3 callers before you that you wouldn't make with no callers in front, and yourself on the button, SB, BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

questions 5-8 deal with callers in front of you.

Prime Time · #5 10-13-2004, 01:21 PM

I personally like to call a 3x BB bet in either situation as long as its not more than 15% of my stack. Also the raiser has to have significant amount of chips, so that when I hit, can double up or make a nice add on to my stack. This is when I hope the raiser has KK or AA when I flop my set. Sometimes if the flop comes lower than your PP, you can win the hand against AK. This needs to be done by feel and the texture of whats been going on, betting patterns. If the raiser came out w/ a weak bet on the flop or a check, chances r you ahead, a proceed as necessary. Hope this helps.

turtlestar · #6 10-13-2004, 01:26 PM

Hi,
For what its worth, my criteria for calling a raise with a small pocket pair are:
Implied odds: this includes my stack size and my opponents stack size, for example it doesn't matter if you have 1000 if your opponent has only 250 and you're calling 80 preflop. Having said that I like Lee Jone's 7%, I use 5% as a rough indicator myself
My read on the player: This is more difficult online, but even online if you feel you have an excellent read on the player and his bettig patterns you should be more inclined to call. If you are clueless about his play, or you have a lot of trouble with him be more inclined to fold.
Position: Specifically relative position. If you are to the immediate left of the raiser and there are 2-3 loose cannons to act after you be more inclined to fold. The better your position relative to all players, the better it is to call.
Some other thoughts on this thread. The pot odds at the time rarely have anything to do with whether or not you will call preflop in No Limit Holdem IF THE MONEY IS DEEP. The implied odds are what you are looking for with a small PP. You want to win the raiser's whole stack. If you know he will only raise with a big PP, the 5-7% of your stack is worth the risk, especially if you know the player can't get away from an overpair. But that's just me.
turtlestar

SossMan · #7 10-13-2004, 01:31 PM

I start w/ 10% and adjust from there.

DOTTT · #8 10-13-2004, 01:57 PM

My answer is 10% for all of your questions.

jwvdcw · #9 10-13-2004, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My answer is 10% for all of your questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that fact that it may be only the raiser in the pot or the raiser and multiple callers makes no difference to you at all?

JaBlue · #10 10-14-2004, 12:02 AM

Playing mid pocket pairs is pretty easy... In all situations, you're playing "no set no bet" type poker. All you care about is implied odds; since you hit your trips on the flop 12% or so of the time (I think), then 10% of your stack is pretty reasonable. Unless you think someone behind you is going to re-pop or something, then you might want to reconsider.