A preflop question. Party 15/30.

[Entity]

Party $15/30. Full ring. TStoneMBD and I are having a disagreement, as always, but I don't pretend to know the answer to this one. I just know what I'd do. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

An unknown UTG raises. Immediately after us are a 19/1/.5 (5k hands) player, a 22/12/1.8 (700 hands) player, a 30/5/1.3 (3800 hands) player, a 58.4/9/.7 (101 hands) player, and a 27/0/.5 (100 hands) player. The table is generally passive and the rest of the players are unknown.

You have 99.

What's the ideal play here?

Rob

[La Brujita]

I think its fold, but I think the ev of all three choices can't be that far apart. I would say in order: fold, raise, call.

[STLantny]

Raise fold call. But my unknown is a little different than your unkown.

[JAA]

I disagree with everyone so far. I would rank the options as 1.) Reraise, 2.) Call, 3.) Fold, with calling just ahead of folding.

I however do agree that in EV terms this decision is probably failry close.

- Jags

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everyone so far. I would rank the options as 1.) Reraise, 2.) Call, 3.) Fold, with calling just ahead of folding.

I however do agree that in EV terms this decision is probably failry close.

- Jags

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.
-James

[JAA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everyone so far. I would rank the options as 1.) Reraise, 2.) Call, 3.) Fold, with calling just ahead of folding.

I however do agree that in EV terms this decision is probably failry close.

- Jags

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

Been here for 3 years, and I finally got one right! Maybe there is hope for me yet...

- Jags

[toss]

I agree with raise, call, fold. Been playing 15/30 long?

[jayheaps]

Raise, Fold, call.

[JAA]

Why do you choose folding over calling in this spot? There are a decent number of flops where you will not mind a preflop rasier betting into you on the flop (>90% of the time) and allowing you raise and thin the field when it comes to your liking. 99 is simply too good to be folding to a preflop raiser, even when hes is an unknown UTG.

- Jags

[TStoneMBD]

I knew that my thoughts on this issue wouldnt be supported by twoplustwo, because the standard 2p2 line for 99 against a UTG raise is to 3bet.

I was playing 15/30 and this situation arose. I actually 3bet the 99 here because that is the default, but after the hand I reconsidered and felt that I should have folded.

Now I probably don't have as much experience as you guys do at 15/30, I've only logged 12k hands there, but I give credit to an unknown raiser. I have a few million hands in my databases, so an unknown raiser is usually a fish and fish usually limp more than they raise. The party 15/30 games are very passive games imo and I would estimate that an unknown UTG raiser doesnt open with 77, and may or may not with 88. He is going to be holding a premium hand and I'm either facing overcards or a higher pair. This also doesn't take into account that someone behind me could easily have a larger pair or coldcall/cap with an Ax combination putting me in a folding proposition postflop.

I don't see value in this situation against an unknown raiser who I have no idea how he plays other than that I have position in which I have no idea how to utilize against an unknown.