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  #1  
Old 12-08-2005, 01:45 AM
jmillerdls jmillerdls is offline
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Posts: 139
Default AKo is killing me...

Ok, so I just moved back to NL after a brief stint at SNGs. I was a winner when I left, and after a week back, I'm doing pretty well.
I played a little under 10k hands the last 7 days and am coming in at around 10PTBB/100 at NL25.
However, my worst hand seems to be AKo. I am also losing a small amount with AQo. Yet, AJo is actually one of my most profitable non-pocket hands.
Has anyone else struggled with this? I'm probably tight aggressive to tight passive.
I've looked through PT and it seems that a majority of my big losses come when I commit all my chips when I only have a pair of Kings.
Is it as simple as not committing all of my chips without better than top pair top kicker?
With the majority of the players being so bad at NL25, I hadn't really been paying attention to anything other than my winrate, but this is certainly concerning.
I've won quite a few big pots with just top pair, so I feel like I'll be a lot weaker with AK in the future if I'm not aggressive enough with it when I hit top pair.
Any advice, tips, or stories of how you overcame this similar problem?
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2005, 01:48 AM
ajmargarine ajmargarine is offline
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Location: Pwning Robby Gordon
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Default Re: AKo is killing me...

Just post some of those hands where you feel you errored and got stacked. AK is a great hand in position. I wonder if some of your poor AK hands came out of the blinds. Overplaying one pair from the blinds or EP is a bad thing. Just post some hands, we'll take a look.
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2005, 01:53 AM
Morrek Morrek is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
Default Re: AKo is killing me...

Over my barely over 20k hands on party, AKs was a loser for me untill a day or so ago(now barely positive), but I know it's basically just variance (as I'm making ~11ptbb/100) and single hands making up huge parts of these statistics since it's such a small sample size. Besides, AKo is a big winner for me.
That said, overvaluating TPTK with AK on a dry board is usually not that big of a problem on 25nl party, as sooo many people get all the way to allin with any ace/king
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2005, 02:00 AM
DJ Sensei DJ Sensei is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 148
Default Re: AKo is killing me...

Posting a few particular AK hands you think you misplayed could help here.

Heres one little tip to get you started:
Well, lets say you have AK in MP, raise it up preflop. Button calls (decent, aggressive player), flop comes K82r. You bet 2/3 pot, button calls. turn comes a low brick. Bet or check? I'd say check.
Theres a reason he called the flop bet. Either he has
1) a big hand (88,22)
2) a weaker king (KQ, KJ)
3) nothing, and plans to try and steal the pot from you, reading your c-bet for weakness.

By checking, you lose the least from (1) and gain the most from (3), and chances are (2) will fire more bets at you as well.

Now, suppose the flop came K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], same flop action. Here, you should bet the turn strongly to charge draws, as they are much more likely here.
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2005, 02:50 AM
jmillerdls jmillerdls is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 139
Default EXAMPLES

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($13.75)
UTG ($26.60)
UTG+1 ($8.30)
UTG+2 ($31.20)
MP1 ($12.45)
MP2 ($13.75)
MP3 ($56.80)
CO ($24.06)
Button ($10.95)
Hero ($24.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, CO calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $0.9</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2</font>, CO calls $2.

Turn: ($6.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $8</font>, Hero calls $17.55 (All-In), CO calls $13.06 (All-In).

River: ($48.86) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $48.86

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Qd As (one pair, queens).
CO has 9s 9h (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: CO wins $48.37. Hero wins $0.49. </font>



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+2 ($50.79)
MP1 ($3.40)
MP2 ($30.25)
MP3 ($25.90)
CO ($28.40)
Hero ($51.83)
SB ($4.05)
BB ($12.80)
UTG ($10.10)
UTG+1 ($25.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, SB (poster) calls $3.95 (All-In), <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $3.80, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $2.55.

Flop: ($12.90) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $10</font>, Hero calls $43.78 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $11.20 (All-In).

Turn: ($81.88) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

River: ($81.88) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $81.88

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Th Td (three of a kind, tens).
UTG+1 has As Ah (one pair, aces).
Hero has Ad Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $42.95. Hero wins $26.58. SB wins $12.35. </font>


I also noticed this hand skewing my AK stats a touch...


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+2 ($26)
MP1 ($18.56)
MP2 ($25.79)
MP3 ($24.50)
Hero ($15.60)
Button ($50.95)
SB ($60.22)
BB ($1.10)
UTG ($24.55)
UTG+1 ($23.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $1, MP1 calls $1.

Flop: ($4.10) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.75</font>, UTG calls $23.30 (All-In), MP1 folds, Hero calls $12.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($41.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($41.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $41.75

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has 3s Kc (full house, threes full of kings).
Hero has Ks Ah (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $41.75. </font>
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2005, 03:06 AM
Moozh Moozh is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 40
Default Re: EXAMPLES

Hand 1)

When your opponent smooth calls the flop, then min-raises the turn, you're in trouble. What do you get by going all-in? If you're ahead he folds and you win zero more. If you're behind, he calls and you lose your stack. Not a good bet. I dont mind calling the raise here, but all-in? No.

Hand 2)

Same as Hand 1. What are you trying to accomplish with the all-in? Do worse hands call you here? You're making a bet with no positive expectation. Stop doing that.

Hand 3)

This is just stupid. Don't post bad beats.
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2005, 03:09 AM
jmillerdls jmillerdls is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 139
Default Re: EXAMPLES

Hand 3) well..that was the point...It's just part of the justification why I'm doing so badly...if this hand wins, I'm not near as a big a loser with this hand than I otherwise would be.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2005, 03:33 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: AKo is killing me...

[ QUOTE ]
Posting a few particular AK hands you think you misplayed could help here.

Heres one little tip to get you started:
Well, lets say you have AK in MP, raise it up preflop. Button calls (decent, aggressive player), flop comes K82r. You bet 2/3 pot, button calls. turn comes a low brick. Bet or check? I'd say check.
Theres a reason he called the flop bet. Either he has
1) a big hand (88,22)
2) a weaker king (KQ, KJ)
3) nothing, and plans to try and steal the pot from you, reading your c-bet for weakness.

By checking, you lose the least from (1) and gain the most from (3), and chances are (2) will fire more bets at you as well.

Now, suppose the flop came K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], same flop action. Here, you should bet the turn strongly to charge draws, as they are much more likely here.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2005, 09:47 AM
djoyce003 djoyce003 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 139
Default Re: EXAMPLES

wow dude. Someone has been watching too much WPT and playing in too many SNG's. This isn't either of those. You do not have to go to the felt with TPTK.

Hand 1 - When you get raised on the turn at this level, TPTK is never ever ever ever good. You must have a SOLID read that this player would do this on a draw to make the play you did...as played you are just giving away money. This is a CLEAR fold on the turn....pushing is the worst of the three options you have.

Hand 2 - I'd have pushed after the reraise from the SB preflop. You'd probably have lost less because the TT guy might have folded to two all-ins. Small stacks go all in quite a bit and their holdings aren't usually AA. It was in this instance, but you can't use that as a future guide. I'd probably push preflop or reraise reall really big to try to shut out UTG+1 so that I can play with his dead money in there in a hand where I stand to be ahead most of the time or at worst a coin flip.

Hand 3 - don't post bad beats seriously all it will do is get you yelled at.
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