KQs, how was this hand ?

[MrWookie47]

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There's also a huge difference between "loose player" and "loose raiser".

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poker tracker was showing him as LAP , i was thinking "loose raiser" from what i saw at the table so far. but i wasn't at the table long enough to really be certain.

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IMO, the ratings are pretty meaningless. You're much better off just looking at the stats. There's a big difference between a player who's 80/40/0.5 and one who's 40/15/0.5, and both of those players can be rated LAP. Granted, stats are far from everything you should be reading about the player, but the ratings do little more for me than add a pretty picture on my HUD.

[tiltaholic]

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There's also a huge difference between "loose player" and "loose raiser".

I don't even know if I agree with the claim that you should be coldcalling these hands. It could be a higher-level "induce more mistakes from villain postflop" sort of move, or it could be not wanting to overcommit money in the pot with the potential of being OOP in a capped pot against a better hand. Or it could be suggesting that you don't 3-bet with a player caught in the middle, but that's rare since you're in early position which is defined to be 3 seats left of the big blind.

If anyone wants to try to hash out an argument for coldcalling, I'd be interested in reading it.

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hey aaron -

if the table conditions were such that you could expect a bunch of other coldcallers i'd rather coldcall with KQs versus a loose player (who isn't a loose raiser). the reason being that in all lieklyhood i am behind and need to catchup postflop, and having several others in the pot is good for me in that case. against a loose raiser, i'd be 3-betting.

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I'll buy that argument. But that's not the situation presented in HPFAP. I'll requote it here with some bold added:

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"if you follow the above guidlines you will mainly be playing only group 1 and 2 hands against and early position raiser. however, against the aforementioned loose raiser you should go ahead an dplay AQ, 99, and 88, and probably reraise with them. (you should also be reraise with the group 1 and group 2 hands with the exception of AJs and KQs which are still best to just call with)."

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right. i don't fully understand the reasoning behind the HEFAP situation. it has been a year since i read the book too, so i should reread it i think.

maybe this:

if he's presenting a situation where the players yet to act behind you are smart enough to not call 2 bets cold, then perhaps the equity of KQs (or AJs) vs a loose raiser it not so high that we are willing to 3-bet and go headsup, and would prefer (for equity reasons) to have the pot be 3-way with us, the raiser, and the BB (who is likely to call). and if BB folds, then we aren't in horrendous shape. i see however, that what i just wrote contradicts the reasoning in my previous post.

intuitively it doesn't make a lot of sense, but honestly i don't remember what the "group 1" and "group 2" hands are - are KQs and AJs the weakest in those groups?

or is there an additional read on that specific "loose raiser" from HEFAP? is he known to play well postflop? or maybe only give action on certain streets?