Hmm live AKs hand

[Shillx]

This hand took place on the June Vegas trip. There is an important concept here that might not get touched on enough. I hope that it will push conventional micro thinking a bit.

The scene is the Wynn on a Thursday night. The game is not very good but I'm drunk and having a good time. I have not been playing many hands because the cards have been cold. I have also missed a few flops with big cards so I might appear weak at this point. The stakes are 4/8. By "not very good" I mean that play is reasonably tight and passive. I tend to like laggier games better so my perception could be off. I have a read on the villian but I will create a few scenarios here.

Wynn 4/8 Las Vegas (9 handed)

Dealer starts her deal and the first card lands face up...it is the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Hero finds A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG.

We raise and everyone folds to the BB who makes it 3-bets. We call.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The big blind bets and we call.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

The big blind bets. What is our play when...

A) The villian is a typical ho-hum player (not fishy but not great).

B) The villian is very good. At least as good as you are and views you as an overly tight (maybe weak) TAG.

I have some thoughts here that may or may not be correct. I feel like there is an interesting dynamic here though. Any comments appreciated as always.

Brad

[SCfuji]

keep the loser coming. call the turn, raise the river if you think he will pay-off. if he doesnt then call. one bet is going into the river no matter how it goes.

[Jimmy The Fish]

I'd be tempted to raise on the turn.

The 3-bet preflop seems to indicate a solid pocket pair, and since one ace was burned, he's discounting the possibility that Hero might have held onto another one.

He's got KK-99. Raise.

[@bsolute_luck]

i'll raise the semi-fishy guy who'll pay off whatever he has.

i'll let Mr. Goodguy keep betting into me as a raise here will fold him.

[xenthebrain]

scenario

a) I would raise the turn. If he has a hand that we beat but still a good hand (like KK, AQ, etc) he will more likely call us on the turn and river. But he might be too afraid to bet the river again with e.g. KK and just check/call, so we would lose one bet.

There are few hands he could have (and beat us) with which he would 3-bet us.

b) I would call the turn again and raise on the river.
I don't want him to fold his WB hand to a turnraise and I don't want him to put a move on me because he thinks I am weak. I think that he reraises the river would be highly unlike without trip aces (and one ace is already dead).

[aK13]

Raise the river for (b) and I don't think it's close.

Raise turn for (a).

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the river for (b) and I don't think it's close.

Raise turn for (a).

[/ QUOTE ]

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]


He's got KK-99. Raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's good then this makes no sense. If he has got one of these hands then he's probably going to fold and we win the least, but if he's got us beat with a set or a 2pair then he's going to reraise and we're going to have the worst of it.

A good player I'm calling and raising the river and folding to a 3bet. A bad player I'm going to raise the Turn.

[DeathDonkey]

Can I raise the flop against the very good player? Can I also raise TT on this flop? Sounds like a plan.

-DeathDonkey

[bozlax]

Question (just curiosity): did the dealer burn the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or did SB fold it?

Question #2 (or actually an observation): you didn't cap preflop with AKs because you were HU, or because you knew there was a dead ace?

As to the questions, I raise A), now, expecting to be checked to and bet the river. For B) I call the turn and raise the river. In both cases I call a villan river-raise; I'm actually more likely to call B than A...I think if ho-hum c/r's you that's a pretty good indicator that he's got top-pair beat, but if Mr. Good 3-bets you it may be a play (remember, he might view you as weak).